TUPE - now expected to sign new contract

Rack_Failure

Hi
I'll cut to the chase and tell you how it is.
I worked for TOTE bookmakers for 14 years and TOTE were bought over by BetFred a year ago. We were TUPE'd over to Betfred and Betfred now expect us to sign up to a new contract of employment with means a big reduction to earnings, ie basic hourly rate.

My question is if I'm not agreeable to sign a new contract (which I'm not this is just a way to pay lower wages) can they sack me or would I be entitled to redundancy?

I would appreciate any advice on this.

LittleVoice

Rack_Failure wrote: »

Hi
I'll cut to the chase and tell you how it is.
I worked for TOTE bookmakers for 14 years and TOTE were bought over by BetFred a year ago. We were TUPE'd over to Betfred and Betfred now expect us to sign up to a new contract of employment with means a big reduction to earnings, ie basic hourly rate.

My question is if I'm not agreeable to sign a new contract (which I'm not this is just a way to pay lower wages) can they sack me or would I be entitled to redundancy?

I would appreciate any advice on this.

This is not redundancy because the work is still there. What they are willing to pay for that work has reduced.

If the business needs to cut pay, they can dismiss you if you do not accept the lower pay. They would have to give you 12 weeks notice as you have been there for more than 12 complete years (including the time when the Tote was a statutory body).

KiKi

Rack_Failure wrote: »

now expect us to sign up to a new contract of employment with means a big reduction to earnings, ie basic hourly rate.

My question is if I'm not agreeable to sign a new contract (which I'm not this is just a way to pay lower wages) can they sack me or would I be entitled to redundancy?

As LV says, it's not redundancy as your job still exists.

However, it may well be breach of contract. What's the reason being given for the reduction in hourly rate? What percentage salary decrease is it?

KiKi

marybelle01

KiKi wrote: »

As LV says, it's not redundancy as your job still exists.

However, it may well be breach of contract. What's the reason being given for the reduction in hourly rate? What percentage salary decrease is it?

KiKi

Or possibly unfair dismissal? It is possible to claim over an enforced change of contract. Of course, winning a claim is a different matter.

Rack_Failure

Thanks for all replies.
I understood TUPE to be a protection of my previous pay and terms & conditions after a take over. It seems TUPE means nothing if a new employer can ride roughshod over me and sack me (albeit with 12 weeks notice) if I refuse to sign a new contract. This is totally unfair or am I missing something?.

PS I understand redundancy is not really an option as the job is not being made redundant. I just wondered if this was poss.

Cheers

getmore4less

TUPE only protects at the point of transfer

Remember once on the new pay they can then make people redundant a common ploy.

This needs everyone to act as a group and resist change there must be a lot involved.

Get legal advice to see if a claim would worth persuing or step you can take to stop/dilute the proposals, employer may modify the proposal to reduce the risk of a claim or loosing a lot, if people choose to ignore the new contract.

Rack_Failure

GM4L
Thanks for the reply. One point, can I legally resist signing a new contract therefore be paid as per original T&C or can I ultimately be sacked if I continue to refuse to sign?

Should there not be eg a lump sum payment to encourage people to sign up to a new contract?

Cheers.

KiKi

Rack_Failure wrote: »

GM4L
Thanks for the reply. One point, can I legally resist signing a new contract therefore be paid as per original T&C or can I ultimately be sacked if I continue to refuse to sign?

Should there not be eg a lump sum payment to encourage people to sign up to a new contract?

Cheers.

Hi there

Please can you answer my questions re pay and proportion of pay, and reasons for the reduction in pay - this is important in terms of your rights.

IF they dismissed you, it would possibly be unfair dismissal - but we need to know the reasons for the pay reduction, and what the reduction is.

IF they don't dismiss you, then it's possibly breach of contract, but again, we need to know the reasons.

Once you've answered these we can better advise.

KiKi

getmore4less

The other thing to watch is you don't have to sign anything,

They can impose the new contract and you have to take action as over time you can be deemed to have accepted if you don't.

As above, the actual changes are critical information.

There must be loads, is there not a union involved or group consultation

Madkittykat

I am aware of someone who works for a company who did something similar. They refused to sign new contract, formally raised a grievance but continued to go to work. They are in the process of taking their employer to an employment tribunal for unlawful deduction of wages.

BigPhil

getmore4less wrote: »

TUPE only protects at the point of transfer

Oh no it doesn't! TUPE preserves the employee's existing T&Cs and the 'new' employer cannot change them save by negotiation, agreement or where there is an Economic, Technical or Organisational need to change involving a reduction in the workforce.