Endowment update: payouts still falling

dunstonh

I don't think you will find I have ever quoted anything from the papers as gospel. Also your comment 'few genuine mis-sells' sort of sells the Pearl salesforce short. From the period in question over 20% of all supposed new business, thats far from a few.

Wasn't responding to your comments there DOTW.

Of course people who were sold their policies in the 70's and 80's were miss-sold.

I am sure many of them were mis-sold by today's standards. However, no regulation existed back then so they were not mis-sold at the time. Of course, most of those taken out in that era went on to pay 2-3 times more than the required amount so it was never an issue.

I too will never ever trust any financial advisor again and thanks to resources like this website I can make my own informed financial decisions.

There is misinformation and inaccurate data posted here at times. Don't ever get food poisoning. You will never be able to eat anything again. It's great how you make a judgement of 30,000 current advisers (80% of them never having a complaint) on the basis of one individual who did something in an era of less regulation.

Unfortunately the brochures do not reflect what people were told at the point of sale

You cannot prove one way or another what was said. Documentation is the only reliable source. This is why pre-issue of suitability reports is becoming more common. You get the report in advance to read and the report is the single most important document of the lot.

Mr_helpful

EdInvestor wrote: »

Hence I reject mr helpful's claim that people are lying when they claim they were missold.

You yourself on another thread advise people on this forum to exploit the lack of written evidence in other words lie.

If an adviser says one thing but the brochure or KFD says something else should you not challenge the adviser at the time. No because most people were so interested in their investment they never even read the first page. I have had people say that they never had anything in writing yet then change their mind when shown their signatue accepting the brochures and advice. I dont claim to have been any better than other advisers but most claims go through when firms havent kept the documentary evidence for all these years. Fortunately my firm was too lazy to throw it out. The other reason may be that Of the endowments I did sell the majority were scot am. The net result is that the claim fails because once you show one bit of selective memory the rest falls apart.

I still believe the vast majority of claims are just jumping on the bandwagon from sites like this but they are hampering the genuine cases.

Much of the time Edinvestor has advised people to cash in endowments in favour of ISA.s etc Well if this is the alternative you cant claim risk was the reason for miss sale as these investments carry a higher risk rating than with profits

EdInvestor

Mr_helpful wrote: »

You yourself on another thread advise people on this forum to exploit the lack of written evidence in other words lie.

The reason I have mentioned the fact that many providers have a problem defending claims because they have destroyed their files is not to encourage people to lie: rather it is is to encourage people who have been missold to make a claim.

Many people have been discouraged from claiming because many providers have given people the run around; they have refused to admit wrong, forced them to go to the FOS, claimed they were time barred when they weren't.IFAs to this day reject all claims as a matter of course. :mad:

People need encouragement to pursue their rights against monolithic banks and insurance companies and salesmen who have been cheating them for years.I make no apology for giving them information which might encourage them to think they can succeed in getting what is rightfully theirs.

The only way to get the financial services industry to start treating customers fairly is to hit them in the wallet if they don't.

Mr_helpful

Of course IFAs reject all claims. If they accept them its an admission of guilt. I dont suppose you complain about your motor insurance companys advice not to accept responsibility when you have an accident even if you run up the back of some one doi you.
Its just the way it works

mayb_2

Mr Helpful have you ever thought of changing your job to car mechanic? You do sound as if you know far more about them than the misselling of endowments issues. The analogy has been shown not to work by many posters here so perhaps you should look for a better one to make your point.

I am a little bored with quoting the FSA (despite the fact that I feel they are a toothless, gutless bunch if well meaning) but they have found that most of the documents that were provided to back up sales of endowments, if they were provided at all, were pretty incomprehensible to the ordinary man in the street. Smoothing for example - now there is an expression to conjure up what - ironing?

If I was to present you with a document in Chinese to sell you that car insurance - but told you what was in it in English, and then claimed later that I had provided you with all the documentation you needed to understand your purchase - you would rightly say I was mad.

I have never taken a newspaper's advice on any financial purchase or been influenced by one to do so - I asked a person employed by a financial company if I needed to purchase a financial product. Over and over again I have been let down in some way by that advice. Not one missale but several, from the selling of my endowment mortgage amd with profits policy to the churning of my pension to the inclusion of an already refused insurance cover on a loan, to a misrepresentation of an interest rate for comparison purposes, to the leaving out of several bits of important information and so on and so on and so on. The difference now is that I can spot and avoid these tricks of the trade because I have a better understanding. It was an expensive learning curve.

It is endemic and the program on the goings on at Barclays Bank showed that. I am not just one unfortunate soul who happens to have had a run of bad luck. It is the same sort of thing happening now again and again. It is fuelled by greed - not of the consumer but of the provider - the banks and the finance companies. Whatever happens to you they make their money.

absolutebounder

strange you feel so bitter

mayb_2

Mmm .....It is hard to imagine why I should be!

I don't actually feel bitter - not now anyway - I had a very nice luxury Cruise to Norway and Iceland from the money from my failed With Profits Policy - when I cashed it in I told myself I had not been saving for my pension I had been saving for the holiday of a lifetime and I made sure I had one.

I enjoy handling my own finances and dealing with the problems thrown up by it - it has taught me a lot. I work hard in a full time job that will (if it is allowed to) provide me with a final salary pension - if I can stay healthy enough to continue until retirement age - that's the best I can do on that one. Should have been 60 of course but is now 65 - should I feel bitter about that one too do you think or just a bit cross?

I am angry that I bothered to try and provide for my future and did not live a bit more in the past. Think of all the holidays I missed saving for a rainy day! I get angry at the lip service that is paid to protecting the public too - it is just a smoke screen for protecting the financial services industry - only it is getting a bit see through now.

toonfish

mayb wrote: »

it is just a smoke screen for protecting the financial services industry

it's a bloody expensive smokescreen as far as I can see, and doesn't seem to offer me any protection

mayb_2

toonfish I don't think they were aiming this at you in particular, but the financial services industry in general. This in turn would protect you anyway. Waste of time with the way some of you behave as you are your own worst enemy at times - Barclays overcharging customers, fraud fiasco reported the other night on Dispatches - not doing themselves any good are they. This does not refer to you in particular but the finance industry in general. What in particular do you need protecting from I wonder. I hope you haven't been miss selling anything!

Mr_helpful

"Not one missale but several, from the selling of my endowment mortgage amd with profits policy to the churning of my pension to the inclusion of an already refused insurance cover on a loan, to a misrepresentation of an interest rate for comparison purposes, to the leaving out of several bits of important information and so on and so on and so on"

All I can say is we all make mistakes only an idiot makes them twice. You seem to have got caught several times. If you want to go through life whining about the past then you are unlikely to get very far. I havent made my money out of selling endowments I have made it mainly in property, yes Ive been ripped off by the odd tenant but every time I forgive as I have learnt a lesson which doesnt get repeated so now I have more knowledge which is invaluable. If you want to stay small minded thinking of blaming anyone but your self and claiming a few thousand here and there thats up to you but you will never see the bigger picture will you?

A holiday of a life time is great. I have a former boss who owes me £7000 but I dont even ask for it. I am better off now without it. Yes it would pay for a couple of weeks somewhere nice but then it would be gone so all we are talking about is less than 1% of my life to date. Very small picture dont you think?
What Im saying is stop living in the past. The Financial services world wasnt out to get you , things went wrong so learn and move on. That way you will be wealthier and feel better in yourself.