MSE News: Santander to charge for 'free' business accounts

tim441

1. I have made a formal complaint to Santander who have, of course, rejected my complaint immediately with a standard letter. Their position is that they have the right to change the t&c…. my position is that ‘free forever’ is such a strong, final statement and agreed term that it is incapable of change.

2. I have therefore followed up with a complaint to the ombudsman as well.

3. My MP has responded to say: Thank you for your email ..........
He has written to Mark Hoban MP, Financial Secretary to the Treasury, with a copy of your email.
We will, of course, let you know when we receive his response.

will keep this site updated. Please continue to complain!

DruidDonagh

Free forever sounds more like Marketing speech to me. Something they would use in an advert or a commercial. Something that will have no legal ground what so ever. The T&C does state that they can change it and thus that they can add a fee to the account.
Take once again at the sections below. These are straight from the santander website. These are the T&C you all agreed on.

DruidDonagh wrote: »

It stands to reason that when Santander bought Abby and the other banks, you must have received new T&Cs which supersede the original T&Cs which came with your contract. Those do give Santander the legal right to change them. It is to bad that fees are just a part of the T&Cs All of you should read trough them. If you don't have them, you can find them online:
santander.co.uk/businessbanking-changes
go to Terms and Conditions
go to Terms and Conditions for accounts opened before 24th October 2011
(newbie cannot post links)
these are the T&Cs you all should have
Go to page 18 section 16
This reads as follows:
16 Changes to your Account
Summary: This section explains that we can change
the Conditions that apply to your account, the reasons
why we can make changes and how we will tell you
about any changes.
16.1 We can change these Conditions and the Specific Conditions:
a) to conform with or anticipate any changes in law,
Codes of Practice or recommendations of the
Financial Services Authority or any other appropriate
regulatory authority;
b) to provide for the introduction of new or improved
systems, methods of operation, services or facilities;
c) to take account of a decision by a Court, Ombudsman,
Regulator or similar body;
d) to reflect general banking practice;
e) to make them clearer or more favourable to you;
f) to ensure that our business is run prudently;
g) to rectify any mistake that might be discovered in due
course; or
h) for any valid reason not stated in these Conditions.

Take a good look at the highlighted parts (b, d and h).

Also take a look at:
16.2 If we change the Conditions, we will give you:
a) at least 2 months personal notice of any change to
a Condition or fee that relates to any withdrawal or
payment service on your account; or
b) at least 30 days personal notice of a change to any
other Condition or fee that is to your disadvantage and
your account is a Payment Account; or.
c) a reasonable period of notice of a change to any other
Condition or fee that is to your disadvantage and your
account is not a Payment Account.
And take note of section C

Like I said, when Santander bought Abby and the other banks, they should have posted the T&Cs which I have shown you here. And my guess is they have.

SO relax, sit down, have a cup of tea and talk about it. Reasonably.

So I doubt that an MP or anyone else can do anything against it.
We might think that it is wrong that it is done, but it is their legal right.
I do agree that it is immoral, but it is a big business and it does not surprise me at all.

tim441

"We might think that it is wrong that it is done, but it is their legal right.
I do agree that it is immoral, but it is a big business and it does not surprise me at all."

That is exactly the reason to stand up and be counted.
1. It is immoral
2. free forever was not just marketing fluff it was an absolute fundamental condition. If you deposit money in a 2 year term account... it means just that - regardless of what other t&c say
3. If you want to roll over - thats fine.... but for now i can only encourage anyone that can to make a noise. That is the only way PPI Hoover, pensions and other miss-sellings have come to the fore... and won!

juliusceasor

As I have stated before the T&C's were changed to allow the imposition of charges.
But the fact remains the account was offered on the basis and fundamental principle that the account was 'free forever'. This is fundamentally different to many offers where an account or deal/ membership is free for life.
The reason I see a difference is that 'for life' could imply the life of the individual taking it out but also the lifetime of the deal, and therefore the deal could be brought to an end whenceforth new terms apply. Often 'for life' was illuminated by a "*" highlighting a term that applied to it such as 'life means the reasonable life of the product device and no longer than 3 years' for example.
Forever implies no end time frame or changes, will apply.

It was also an online/postal only account service and very poor and rather basic at that, it was very.. very.. slow to implement faster banking for example, there were no numbered deposit slips, hours on hold waiting and waiting, payments went missing charges were applied without cause, online statements were displayed for the previous year not current, complaints weren't followed up, which a number of posters have commented over, which many accepted was the price paid for the Shocking but 'free service' and I have claimed a good amount in compensation for these errors. They have no track record for implementing a fee based service on the back of their past performance in my opinion.

I see no reason for anyone not to be unhappy with the change from free banking or to accept the T&Cs should be applied without a fight. It is typical of the immoral actions of banks and symptomatic of them and I for one am truly fed up with Banks walking roughshod over individuals and businesses to their own ends.
At the very least on the grounds of further bank misleading and miss selling, the whole matter should be raised and investigated.

It is not the charge it is the imposition of a charge, when none was expected. If I had to pay for a business account then it would be on the basis of choosing one from similar charged or non charged for accounts. Not being hoodwinked with a free one on the expectation that apathy would ensure you stayed, when charges were applied.

I await their response and will push to see it through and will leave if they impose charges for any 'other bank' paid or otherwise rather than accept something I believe to be morally unfair, particularly when dressed up to be, to the clients benefit, they simply have no concept of a fundamental of British temperament, fair play:


Dear Mr ,

We are writing to let you know that we have received your complaint. Thank you for contacting us and telling us about your concerns.

At Santander we want to keep our customers happy, however we know that sometimes things can go wrong and we welcome complaints as an opportunity to improve the service we offer you.

In the first instance, your comments need to be addressed by the area of Santander you have an issue with. As some of our products have specialist complaint teams, I have forwarded your complaint to the relevant department to be investigated.

We will endeavour to keep you regularly informed of the progress of your complaint.

To find out more about the Complaints Procedure we have set up to make sure you receive a quick and fair reply - please visit our website:

www.santander.co.uk

From our homepage:

• Select ‘How Do I?’ from the top of the page
• Then click on ‘Contact Us’
• Select ‘Complaints’ from the drop down list

If you would like to talk to us about anything else please give us a call. To find the most appropriate telephone number:

• Click on ‘Contact Us’ in the top right-hand corner
• Click on the relevant product type

Regards,

Toby Samuels
Customer relations officer
Santander

Ologhai

I could get hot under the collar about principle; I could spend an hour writing a letter to Santander, to the financial ombudsman or to my MP. Instead, I chose to spend my hour demonstrating that my disloyalty has the potential to be equal to Santander's own by opening a new business banking account with another bank.

Thanks to MSE for the advanced warning. I have not officially been informed by Santander of the account changes (yet), but being made aware earlier is incredibly helpful. It will hopefully allow me the extra time to make sure all my clients are completely aware of the change of account details (and to see at least one invoice from each get paid into the new account) before I close my old Santander accounts. If I make it clear at all to Santander what their disloyalty can lead to, it will be at that point (if they ask or even care), face to face.

I chose the HSBC Business Direct account (as linked earlier in this thread). I'm hopeful that it will work out well. It's free (without specific time limit) for the kinds of use I'll put it to. The opening of the new account could hardly have been made easier (so, well done to HSBC at least for making a promising start). Of course, if it turns out in due course that HSBC change the terms (as Santander have), I will once again take my disloyalty elsewhere. Having asked me why I was moving from Santander, I think HSBC has been made aware of this likelihood (if they choose to make a note of it).

I suppose it struck me that the best thing that long-standing Santander business customers can do to show their displeasure is to leave. Preferably in droves!

firsttimetom

I've been with Santander since 2003 when they were Abbey - I was definitely promised free business banking FOREVER.

I do most of my business banking online, and have seldom had to get in touch with them, but when I have, it has been a nightmare. I tried 5 times to get my address changed last year, and it was only after they recently updated their website that I could do it online and finally get it changed.

Additionally, just because something is tax deductible, it doesn't mean businesses want to pay it. 'Tax Deductable' does not mean free or courtesy of HMRC, it means you can off set it against your tax bill. As a basic rate tax payer, you could say that this amounts to a 29% (20% Tax, 9% NI) discount from the price you are paying so a £7.50 p/m charge will cost you £5.32, after tax relief. A good business man will always try and keep costs down, tax deductible or not.

I'll be moving banks, partly out of principal but mainly because Santanders current level of service is abyssal and if I am going to pay a monthly fee, then I expect to receive a decent level of service.

JuicyJesus

Ologhai wrote: »

I could get hot under the collar about principle; I could spend an hour writing a letter to Santander, to the financial ombudsman or to my MP. Instead, I chose to spend my hour demonstrating that my disloyalty has the potential to be equal to Santander's own by opening a new business banking account with another bank.

Too right!

Far better to just take your custom elsewhere, rather than ranting and raving at anyone who'll listen about how unfair it all is.

magpiecottage

I am back on line.

I wrote to Foale before going away indicating that I wished to retain the free account and providing evidence of my entitlement to it but have not yet heard anything.

In the meantime, a few observations:

• Some have suggested that the conditions changed when Abbey National was taken over by Santander. This does not hold water because in reality, Abbey National PLC is one and the same as Santander UK PLC - the name was changed on 11 January 2010
• Santander can argue that the imposition of the fee is an exercise of legitimate commercial judgement. However, the original decision to make a promise of "free forever" was itself an exercise of legitimate commercial judgement. It is therefore difficult to see how it can be legitimate to simply renege on it because it has not worked out favourably for them.
• They can change their terms and conditions according to the contract but the "free forever" documentation appears to amount to what is known as a "collateral contract" - which would be legally enforcible.

So what is the way forward:

• If you simply do nothing you will probably be deemed to have accepted the change.
• If you complain then they should respond within eight weeks of receipt.
• If you are not satisfied with the response, or they do not give one within 8 weeks, you can go to the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS) if you have capital/turnover of less than €2 million (or the Sterling equivalent) AND no more than 9 employees.
• Santander may issue a response indicating you can go to FOS when you exceed these limits. If so, you can argue that Santander has voluntarily granted jurisdiction - which FOS may or may not accept.
• It will not cost you to go to FOS - but Santander will have to pay £500 a time - so it will cost it nearly six years' worth of charges to do so even if it wins.

You need to allow Santander a chance to respond before going to FOS.

Make clear that you consider the "Free Forever" documentation to amount to a collateral contract that you wish Santander to honour.

BusinessIsBusiness

__________

opinions4u

BusinessIsBusiness wrote: »

bbc.co.uk/news/business-19012945


Now been covered by the BBC aswell.

The last point is interesting to note. In terms of treating customers fairly, this harmonising of the accounts will do that, as currently Abbey, A&L & Santander customers are offered completely different charges and fees for Overdrafts etc. Once this change has happened everyone will be on the same.. treating them no differently and fairly.

I'm sure they'll move all their old eSavings customers on to their current on bonus rate if that's what they think "Treating Customers Fairly" is about.

The accounts in question are largely ones that Santander has inherited from banks it has taken over in the past - the Abbey and the Alliance & Leicester.

Brilliant journalism from the BBC here!