Prudential with profits:

chris1

dunstonh wrote: »

Pru have a very good reputation and most investors would be happy to mirror what they achieve. (pru as in Pru original policy and not one of the companies they took over)

Are all the With Profit funds under the Pru umbrella managed separately then? Scottish Amicable for example? What's their reputation?

dunstonh

chris1 wrote: »

Are all the With Profit funds under the Pru umbrella managed separately then? Scottish Amicable for example? What's their reputation?

Pru (Scot Am) plans never return as much as Pru originals.

srcandas

dunstonh wrote: »

Pru (Scot Am) plans never return as much as Pru originals.

Yup mine is scottish Am. Seems very odd. Normally when orgs. merge the savings are based on scalability. While one needs to honour contracts actually applying multiple investment strategies seems not a very sensible approach.

Again it all boils down to honesty and transparency. Sadly something the large financial institutions seem to lack. I guess the problem started with my parents and grandparents generations. They had total faith in the financial institutions (and the Mr Mainwarrings). My word is my bond. And all that.

That meant they (the financial institutions)were left to their own devices and while the cat is away the mice will play.

It will be interesting to see if governments now react with extreme legislation which stifles the industry. The most recent announcements relating to HSBC money laundering and South Korean banks manipulating interest rates on top of Barclays .......

It shows the whole thing is rotten to the core. It will be very hard to win back the public's confidence that is for sure.

As for me with no reassurances from anyone (including the Pru) that the intention is not to rob me - I'll take what is left and try to warn others not to trust these animals unless things radically change.

Hopefully the changes to how IFAs operate/charge will make them more attractive and they will act as a level of protection for the consumer :beer:

dunstonh

Yup mine is scottish Am. Seems very odd. Normally when orgs. merge the savings are based on scalability. While one needs to honour contracts actually applying multiple investment strategies seems not a very sensible approach.

You also have to factor in the cost of buying Scot Am, integration and the cost of changing the portfolio over time as well as guarantees and charges on scot am products compared to Pru originals.

Hopefully the changes to how IFAs operate/charge will make them more attractive and they will act as a level of protection for the consumer

Most IFAs are not having to change anything as they already work that way and have done for many years. Typical FSA was to focus on non-issues or minor issues and ignore the big issues.

chris1

srcandas wrote: »

Again it all boils down to honesty and transparency. Sadly something the large financial institutions seem to lack...It shows the whole thing is rotten to the core. ... warn others not to trust these animals unless things radically change... Hopefully the changes to how IFAs operate/charge will make them more attractive and they will act as a level of protection for the consumer

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

srcandas

Just to put some final figures on this. My funds have now been moved to cash prior to crystalisation. The numbers show that the I lost over £1000 (~1.5% of fund) in a year when the FTSE rose 10%.

Yes we can all make excuses for them: they chose the wrong investments, you are still paying for a guarantee the offered 30 years ago that was always irrelevant, ......... but at the end of the day these people cannot handle simple administration efficiently so why would I believe they know anything about investment?

And losses like this of the last year are consistent with those of several recent years.

Of course perhaps they know a lot about investment and are just ripping me off but one wouldn't want to think that would one

I just thank my lucky stars that I chose 4 pensions and two of them have proved to be able at what they do. Thanks to Scottish Equitable and Windsor Life :beer:

dunstonh

The numbers show that the I lost over £1000 (~1.5% of fund) in a year when the FTSE rose 10%.

What year was that?

2011 the FTSE lost 5.6%. There was a near 20% drop in the markets between July and August last year.

Linton

srcandas wrote: »

I quote:

"2011 was another good year for our with profits Fund, which builds on the strong returns achieved in 2010".

My pot 31/12/2009 Benefit £33,767.20 existing bonus £27,490.10 new declared bonus £382.38 Total = £61,639.68
My pot 31/12/2011 Benefit £33,767.20 existing bonus £28,258.46 new declared bonus £389.32 Total = £62,414.98

Paid in £1616

So a good couple of years amounts to a loss of £840.70

Am I glad they didn't have a bad couple of years :rotfl:

From my understanding of how these schemes work, I believe your analysis is incorrect. If I have got it wrong please could an expert correct me.

When you take out the policy you agree to pay in a certain amount each year and they guarantee to pay you a certain amount ("the benefit") on maturity. This benefit will be in excess of the total you pay in - ie it represents a guaranteed investment return.

So in return for you paying in the £1616 all the Pru are required to do is to continue to honour the guarantee. In addition though they provide a bonus depending on the progress of the overall fund - ie including all participants in the scheme. So you havent lost £840.70, you have gained £775 or there abouts.

Suggest you check a couple of things:

1) What will be the total you have paid in at maturity compared with the value at that time?? What annual return does this represent?

2) By how much did the value of the fund fall when the banks collapsed? - the FTSE about halved in value.

For more info read this

srcandas

Guys thanks for your input. I'm sure as you suggest the product has designed rules and the Pru are abiding by them. And their lack of transparency and admin. skills may be clouding my judgement but:

On the 31/12/2008 my fund value was £61257.16. I paid in over three years £2424. On the 31/12/11 the fund value was £63414.98. The FTSE was ~4600 at the start and ~5700 at the end. Good progress I think

Now what about the terminal bonus I hear you say Well earlier this year Dunston offered that I could get them to tell me its value. I called and it was about £10000. So at the very least I expect £63414 + £10000 if the markets do not collapse. I'll waive the £500 further I've paid in.

Now I tried to keep track of progress but mysteriously over the last 3 months or so the previous onscreen valuations, to my and their staff's surprise, didn't work. And now the final paper work offers nothing but a total value! And it's at least £2500 less than I can possibly justify.

Do you not think a final statement of the transfer to cash would be valid? I received such from Reassure, Scottish Equitable and Scottish Widows.

But soon it will be history. It just leaves a very bitter taste relating to a company I've known literally all my life and which my mum and dad had the greatest confidence. But that was in Mr Mainwarrings era :beer:

Linton

srcandas wrote: »

Guys thanks for your input. I'm sure as you suggest the product has designed rules and the Pru are abiding by them. And their lack of transparency and admin. skills may be clouding my judgement but:

On the 31/12/2008 my fund value was £61257.16. I paid in over three years £2424. On the 31/12/11 the fund value was £63414.98. The FTSE was ~4600 at the start and ~5700 at the end. Good progress I think

Now what about the terminal bonus I hear you say Well earlier this year Dunston offered that I could get them to tell me its value. I called and it was about £10000. So at the very least I expect £63414 + £10000 if the markets do not collapse. I'll waive the £500 further I've paid in.

Now I tried to keep track of progress but mysteriously over the last 3 months or so the previous onscreen valuations, to my and their staff's surprise, didn't work. And now the final paper work offers nothing but a total value! And it's at least £2500 less than I can possibly justify.

Do you not think a final statement of the transfer to cash would be valid? I received such from Reassure, Scottish Equitable and Scottish Widows.

But soon it will be history. It just leaves a very bitter taste relating to a company I've known literally all my life and which my mum and dad had the greatest confidence. But that was in Mr Mainwarrings era :beer:

I dont think there is any evidence here that your pension has performed badly. How much have you put in over how many years? Then we can work out what the return has been. You may be pleasantly surprised.

What was its value in 31/11/2007 when the FTSE was 20% higher than now? Are you sure you wanted an investment that followed the FTSE?

I have a Pru with profits bond, not the same as a pension but run on similar principles. Since I bought it in 2002 it has averaged about 5.7% annually with no tax due which seems pretty good to me for something much safer than any equity investment.