Not paid for a disciplinary hearing. Correct?

marybelle01

ohreally wrote: »

The worker and the companion have protection against any detrimental act or dismissal in connection with exercising their section 10 rights, and can take a claim to a tribunal within three months. If working for the same employer, both the companion and the worker have the right to be paid.


provision in relation to companions under paragraph (k) corresponding to section 10(6) and (7) of the Employment Relations Act 1999 (c. 26)(right to paid time off to act as companion, etc.); .

I am sorry but I cannot find this reference. What I find is relevant only to elected employee representatives. Could you please provide a direct link?

ohreally

marybelle01 wrote: »

I am sorry but I cannot find this reference. What I find is relevant only to elected employee representatives. Could you please provide a direct link?

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1999/26/section/10

10 (3) (c)

marybelle01

But that says, and I quote
"An employer shall permit a worker to take time off during working hours for the purpose of accompanying another of the employers workers in accordance with a request under subsection (1)(b)." I cannot see where it says that an employer must pay someone for time outside normal working hours.

Where does it say that bit?

BarrelScraper

Thanks for the link, although i see nothing to suggest i should've been paid.

I see the bit where it says permitting leave - but if you leave work for a period of time, surely you're not entitled to be paid, only to be entitled to leave...?


As for leaving at 5:30pm - this is a sensitive area. People outside of the company say "just leave at 5:30pm, you don't HAVE to do overtime".

That's been tried before & my god do you get roasted for doing it. Contracts state overtime "as and when" required. So basically do as we say, when we say.

ohreally

marybelle01 wrote: »

Where does it say that bit?

It's explicit : the companion must not suffer a detriment.

BobQ

BarrelScraper wrote: »

I've had disciplinary hearings in the past, during work hours & have always been paid for them.

Basically i've not been paid for this & i want to know if this is correct.

.

I would at least try and claim the amount as they chose the time of the meeting.

Legally the employee is entitled to be accompanied and the company should comply with The ACAS Code of Practice for Discipinary processes. Unfortunately, I do not believe it addresses the specific issue (but you might wish to check). The ACAS User Guide does however explain what ACAS considers to be reasonable in applying the COP. The section below suggests you should be paid.

It may be that the firm will say they only recognise the COP and do not care if they follow best practice. Alternatively they might back off when confronted with an ACAS document since it goes to the heart of the legal requirement to have fairness in the disciplinary process.

http://www.acas.org.uk/media/pdf/s/o/Acas-Guide-on-discipline-and-grievances_at_work_(April_11)-accessible-version-may-2012.pdf

"A worker who has agreed to accompany a colleague employed by the same employer is entitled to take a reasonable amount of paid time off to fulfil that responsibility. This should cover the hearing and it is also good practice to allow time for the companion to familiarise themselves with the case and confer with the worker before and after the hearing"

Uncertain

BobQ wrote: »

It may be that the firm will say they only recognise the COP and do not care if they follow best practice. Alternatively they might back off when confronted with an ACAS document since it goes to the heart of the legal requirement to have fairness in the disciplinary process.

That is the problem, it is only a code of practice and not a legal requirement.

The firm only suffers a "penalty" for not following it if.....

a) The employee is dismissed

b) The employee takes the case to a tribunal

c) The employee wins

and

d) The tribunal increases the award because of the employer's poor practice

As I've said before on here there are plenty of employers around who take the view "hire who we like, sack who we don't like and if all else fails pay up. Given that the vast majority of cases that get as far as a tribunal and are won by the employee attract compensation of less than £5K many view it as the cheap option! If that is their stance then making it as difficult as possible for the employee to be accompanied is just another part of the jigsaw.

heretolearn_2

'It's explicit : the companion must not suffer a detriment.'

Exactly. The companion here did not suffer any detriment. They would not have been paid for the extra time anyway.

The rule you are linking to means that if it is during work time, then the employer cannot deduct from their salary/wages the time spent at the hearing.

marybelle01

heretolearn wrote: »

'It's explicit : the companion must not suffer a detriment.'

Exactly. The companion here did not suffer any detriment. They would not have been paid for the extra time anyway.

The rule you are linking to means that if it is during work time, then the employer cannot deduct from their salary/wages the time spent at the hearing.

That is my reading of it as well. I am afraid that whilst I agree that in principle an employer should pay, I really do not see any evidence that the law says they must pay, as ohreally suggests it does.

DVardysShadow

All of this addresses the point. It seems to me that the employee and OP have missed a trick

(
4)If—
(a)a worker has a right under this section to be accompanied at a hearing,
(b)his chosen companion will not be available at the time proposed for the hearing by the employer, and
(c)the worker proposes an alternative time which satisfies subsection (5),
the employer must postpone the hearing to the time proposed by the worker.
(5)An alternative time must—
(a)be reasonable, and
(b)fall before the end of the period of five working days beginning with the first working day after the day proposed by the employer.
(6)An employer shall permit a worker to take time off during working hours for the purpose of accompanying another of the employer’s workers in accordance with a request under subsection (1)(b).