The Most Important Document You Will Never Read....

Sapphire

Just wondering about ways in which the deficit could be reduced: if the government stopped spending our money on foreign aid, that would be a considerable saving. If they got rid of tax havens and prevented people from stowing billions without paying tax, wouldn't that make a huge difference to the country's financial state? The millions that is dolled out in bonuses should surely be put to better use than being given to those who are already wealthy and certainly don't need the money. And MPs' pensions and other benefits should definitely be reduced.

There is also massive wastage in government departments, and huge amounts of money being spent on 'reports', 'committees' and 'investigations' of various kinds.

Graham_Devon

RenovationMan wrote: »

Fine, but then you still added up the outgoings wrong and put extra in your 'savings' in order to massage your figures.

Apart from the tax free portion of pensions, the scenarios are the same.

OK. Firstly you have put YOUR tax code into the PAYE calculator.

Without using a tax code, you will get my figure. Try it.

Secondly, yes, put £200 instead of £290. Feel free to tell everyone several times, as you have done.

But it ends up hitting the same point. £290 isn't a lot. You could end up in debt VERY easily via one bill. I've said recently my car cost me over £1000 recently to repair. How would these people deal with these scenarios?

You can bang on all you like about the £90. It certainly wasn't massaging, just an oversight this morning. It's money easily swallowed by having the luxury of broadband, a TV licence and a mobile phone (all of which you'll noticed i had left out of the original figures).

The end point is still the same. There isn't enough money to save for a "decent" pension. Would YOU be able to get by on £200 a month for literally anything else?

Or would you honestly do without a TV, do without the internet, do without telecommunications to the outside world so that you can save more for your pension? The answer is no....otherwise you'd be doing it. As your on here, you are not.

As I say, you are living in a fantasy world sometimes with these silly arguments, and this proves it.

grizzly1911

RenovationMan wrote: »

GRAHAM'S test case would have £384 'spends' at the end of the month, instead of '£651', which I think is reasonable considering he could end up with a pension pot of between £300k and £600k when he retired.

Quite where all your 'monk' stuff comes from I don't know because GRAHAM came up with the test employee and so therefore GRAHAM didn't put an element of 'socialising' into the outgoings section. LOL, you guys really really can't criticize fellow 'bears' can you? You'll try anything to pin his example onto me :rotfl:

You are correct that Graham didn't put a socialising, depreciation, maintenance cost in you are right.

COULD is the operative word in your description of the pension pot providing returns continue, cost remain unchanged, payments can be made for the whole 49 years and before inflation for an investment of close to £200K in one basket.

I wonder how many people will have the luxury of continuous employment for so long going forward?

In the current economic climate just hope we don't have another Clerical Medical.

Any chance of a response to my student loan payment question?

Graham_Devon

grizzly1911 wrote: »

You are correct that Graham didn't put a socialising, depreciation, maintenance cost in you are right.

I didn't no....but I didn't think I honestly had too. I thought it would be covered under "literally anything else". As always though, you have to plan ahead on this forum, as literally anything you didn't state categorically will be used!!!

I would have been there half the morning covering every single base! Wonder who would have read the wall of text if I had!

All it needs is a little common sense (this isn't aimed at you)...without it, we end up in these sorts of scenarios in the discussion as someone will not back down.

Graham_Devon

RenovationMan wrote: »

So to recap, Devon:

misscalculated the net salary down by £170, No, you have decided to put your tax code into the PAYE calulator hence the different figure, people have differing tax codes, so I didn't use one at all.
misscalculated the pension contribution up by £152 Were talking about SAVING into an ISA or other vehicle, we are not talking about pensions. It's what defined the original point.
Deducted pension from net pay instead of gross. Again, were talking saving, so...no.
misscalculated the outgoings by £90. Yes, I did. Simple error.

And he throws around accusations that people are not creating 'realistic' examples!!! The gaul of the bloke!

Just wanted to respond to this. My replies in red. Be nice for you to admit it was actually you in the wrong for the majority, but alas....to busy picking the rolling head smiley icon out of the picking list to even read the dicsussion correctly.

pqrdef

RenovationMan wrote: »

2/3rd of this chaps £8k is £5333. To get that sort of an annual pension, the bloke would have to have a pension pot of about £100k. This would be achievable with his £53.33 pension savings if he got a return of 4.1% on his pension investment.

You're still ignoring inflation.

Graham_Devon

pqrdef wrote: »

You're still ignoring inflation.

And its bliss......

pqrdef

RenovationMan wrote: »

So if someone is 18 and on £8k per year, he has to put away 9% of his gross salary. This equates to £640 per annum

£720 I make it.

Fifteen-all. New balls please.

grizzly1911

Sapphire wrote: »

Just wondering about ways in which the deficit could be reduced: if the government stopped spending our money on foreign aid, that would be a considerable saving. If they got rid of tax havens and prevented people from stowing billions without paying tax, wouldn't that make a huge difference to the country's financial state? The millions that is dolled out in bonuses should surely be put to better use than being given to those who are already wealthy and certainly don't need the money. And MPs' pensions and other benefits should definitely be reduced.

There is also massive wastage in government departments, and huge amounts of money being spent on 'reports', 'committees' and 'investigations' of various kinds.

The only real way is to get the country working again, and the volume of tax receipts up. The leaky bucket needs to be filled because as soon as you repair one hole another opens.

Hit one tax loophole and another is found. If the bigwigs don't have the morality to pay their share to society they won't.

Tinkering with adjustments to tax rates, reliefs and means testing is just like rearranging the seats on the Titanic.

Real jobs, real exports.

coastline

Sorry haven't read through the thread but I honestly believe the state pension will still be around in 30-40 years time...
The new £140 a week state pension will probably kick in around 2016 ...wether the perks of free bus passes etc are there is a guessing game..
Bus passes are estimated at £500m a year...winter fuel at £2bn...so there may be a saving there for the government especially for those with a private pension...
I honestly don't believe the government are expecting people to generate a generous private pension....just enough to keep them from claiming benefits...
£100,000 pension pot today would only generate £6,000 roughly but its enough to eliminate most pensioners from benefits..
At just 3.5% inflation you'd need to double your pension pot every 20 years just to keep pace...so you're looking at £500,000 minimum over your working life...
Well thats my guess considering all the uncertainty and the problem that half the population doesn't earn over £20,000 a year..