MSE News: Over half would do a Jimmy Carr on tax, or worse

Former_MSE_Helen
Former_MSE_Helen Former MSE Posts: 2,382 Forumite
"Over half of taxpayers would try every trick in the book to wriggle out of tax, or even break the law, our poll shows..."
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  • JimmyTheWig
    JimmyTheWig Forumite Posts: 12,199
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    I think what the poll was missing was income.
    If I earned what Jimmy Carr earned then I would be able to afford to pay my full share and I would think that fair. Therefore I would not need to avoid taxes in these ways.
    But in my real life where money is tight then of course I would reduce my tax bill if I could.

    If other people feel similarly it is difficult to know what these answers represent.
  • LizzyH_2
    LizzyH_2 Forumite Posts: 1 Newbie
    Someone made a very good point on the BBC last week (I forget who it was). No one is under any legal, ethical or moral obligation to pay any more tax than is necessary. The Government is not a charity. There are plenty of those we can support using our spare cash, should we choose to.

    I own a limited company so I pay less tax than I would if I was PAYE. Every year, I sit down with my accountant, and we discuss my expenses. He makes calculations to ensure I pay no more than is necessary within the current law. This is not illegal. It's sensible.

    As a result, I compromise job security, sick pay, pension, etc. because I am not an employee. Horses for courses, as it were.

    I don't think the amount anyone earns is relevant. The principle should remain regardless.
  • System
    System Community Admin Posts: 178,003
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    But "is necessary" is the key point. There are plenty of ways to avoid tax, using legislation in the way it was intended. Eg pension relief, gift aid or capital allowances etc. Where I have a problem is exploiting gaps in legislation to artificially reduce tax liabilities.

    Legality can't be own only guide when (subjectively) deciding the "right" course of action. Sooner or later the loopholes are closed either by testing the legislation in the courts or rewriting the law as necessary. On the day it happens its hard to say its the wrong thing to do today but right yesterday.
  • Gordon_the_Moron
    Gordon_the_Moron Forumite Posts: 1,472
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    I don't think what Jimmy Carr did should be legal but it is, so it is the system at fault not him!

    I have an ISA, is that unethical as it is avoiding tax?

    I stooze, is that unethical as its costing the bank (partly public owned!) money?
    If you don't like what I say slap me around with a large trout and PM me to tell me why.

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  • lkate
    lkate Forumite Posts: 60 Forumite
    You sort of wonder how they don't have enough money considering everything that is taxed.
    Inheritance Tax
    Stamp Duty
    Insurance Premium Tax
    Airport Tax
    Capital Gains Tax
    National Insurance
    Income tax
    Fuel duty tax
    VAT
    Council tax
    Car tax
    Fuel Tax on utilities
    Tax on Savings & Investments
    TV license
    Corporation Tax.
    National Insurance paid by employers
    Stamp Duty Land Tax.
    Stamp Duty Reserve Tax.

    I'm sure there are more stealth taxes some where. Feel free to add. I actually wonder how much the average person pays in tax over a year when you consider all of these things.

    As a driver.... I feel like a massive cash cow. "Oh lets increase fuel duty"... Yeah thanks. If it went to trying to find greener solutions and technologies that could replace cars it wouldn't bother me so much and the argument of "you're environmentally unfriendly though" would work.

    Mortgage free date: Jul 2023.
  • System
    System Community Admin Posts: 178,003
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    I don't think what Jimmy Carr did should be legal but it is, so it is the system at fault not him!

    I have an ISA, is that unethical as it is avoiding tax?

    I stooze, is that unethical as its costing the bank (partly public owned!) money?

    I wouldn't class ISA as unethical as that account works in exactly the way the law intended. The purpose of the legislation was to create a tax free savings account - within specified limits. No exploitation of loopholes no artificial transaction or disguising what is clearly income ( in the commonly accepted sense) as an interest free loan with no obligation to repay.
  • BTwhistleblower
    BTwhistleblower Forumite Posts: 7
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    I think what the poll was missing was income.
    If I earned what Jimmy Carr earned then I would be able to afford to pay my full share and I would think that fair. Therefore I would not need to avoid taxes in these ways.
    But in my real life where money is tight then of course I would reduce my tax bill if I could.

    If other people feel similarly it is difficult to know what these answers represent.

    Here's the catch - it's probably only worthwile for people earning on Jimmy Carr's level to make use of these schemes. People who might benefit most from a bit of tax reduction, i.e. the 'squeezed middle' are probably not in a position to pay the 'advisors' and 'management' fees that usually come with these arrangements.
  • Taiko
    Taiko Forumite Posts: 2,711
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    Over half say they would do it or worse. The remainder are lying.
  • BTwhistleblower
    BTwhistleblower Forumite Posts: 7
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    :mad:
    I don't think what Jimmy Carr did should be legal but it is, so it is the system at fault not him!

    I have an ISA, is that unethical as it is avoiding tax?

    I stooze, is that unethical as its costing the bank (partly public owned!) money?

    Ethical? what about all the 'global' and 'multinationals' that avoid paying billions by registering outside the UK?

    There is a clear double standard at work - individuals, especially public figures, are softer targets than corporations with legions of lawyers and accountants who just give HMRC the finger.
  • m5rcc
    m5rcc Forumite Posts: 1,544
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    One would happy to pay their "fair share" of tax if it was spent prudently. Sadly it is not and therefore I choose not to pay tax. Period.
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