Labour's U-turn on immigration.

A._Badger

Generali wrote: »

Don't get me wrong. On balance I'd rather see a Tory Government than a Labour one in the UK.

However that was particularly crappy.

It was, but it's one of those incidents that has crept into legend and has been used to completely obscure the equally nasty attitudes common in the Labour movement of the time.

All's fair in love, war and politics, but it galls to see how well the propagandists have done their whitewashing (pun unintentional).

I wish I could agree with you about the respective merits of the two parties with regard to government but as it is I despise them both, just about equally.

StevieJ

I have just completed the Register of Electors declaration, I had a choice of English, Welsh or Polish language.

kabayiri

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Indeed it was.

It's quite interesting though, as a related thought, that the far right and far left are pretty much equally protectionist and equally racist/xenophobic these days although presumably with slightly different ideological justifications...

I do wonder about the cause/effect of these things, and whether it's racists that are drawn to such ideology or whether it's the ideology that creates the racist.

Are you a democratic realist though Hamish ?

Because, according to your wide casting definition, there are a lot of people in the UK who are racist and protectionist. Each one of these people has a vote equal in weight to yours.

Ordinary working people will work out the impact of immigration by looking in their neighbourhood. They already have.

Dinner party chattering classes, unaffected by working class issues, will defend their position with graphs.

kabayiri

CLAPTON wrote: »

...
If we take the view it's always better (cheaper) to recruit an experienced foreigner rather than train an unemployed UK youth, then our sub class will be there for ever.

A policy of mass immigration alongside large numbers of young unemployed is almost an acknowledgement that we have failed to skill our young for the workplace.

That's a tragic outcome which will have a lingering effect for years.

lvader

kabayiri wrote: »

A policy of mass immigration alongside large numbers of young unemployed is almost an acknowledgement that we have failed to skill our young for the workplace.

That's a tragic outcome which will have a lingering effect for years.

Or maybe that our youth doesn't want to work for £5-6 an hour.

A._Badger

lvader wrote: »

Or maybe that our youth doesn't want to work for £5-6 an hour.

Leaving party politics out of it (both main parties are just as bad, it seems to me) I think anyone with a wide family network will have seen for themselves that proper training for skilled manual work has all but vanished from the UK in the past few decades. Lots of Media Studies degrees - not so many toolmakers or plumbers.

worldtraveller

kabayiri wrote: »

A policy of mass immigration alongside large numbers of young unemployed is almost an acknowledgement that we have failed to skill our young for the workplace.

That's a tragic outcome which will have a lingering effect for years.

Absolutely, we have one of the biggest "criminal" failures of the last Labour government when almost two in five children entered secondary school without a firm grasp of the basics of reading, writing & maths.

Add to that that if the previous Government had actually done something to get British workers back into employment, rather than around 70% of the 2 million new jobs created in the 10 years between 1997-2007 under Labour going to foreign migrants, things may be a lot better now. I'm actually not against the movement of employees across borders per se, as it works both ways, but 70%?!

kabayiri

A._Badger wrote: »

Leaving party politics out of it (both main parties are just as bad, it seems to me) I think anyone with a wide family network will have seen for themselves that proper training for skilled manual work has all but vanished from the UK in the past few decades. Lots of Media Studies degrees - not so many toolmakers or plumbers.

It doesn't take a genius to work out that when you encourage people to take degree courses, even those in the fluffier subjects, then you raise their earning expectations.

Labour even justified the student debt policy on the basis of increased earnings. All these promises must be sounding increasingly hollow.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

kabayiri wrote: »

there are a lot of people in the UK who are racist and protectionist. Each one of these people has a vote equal in weight to yours.

Indeed they do.

Fortunately for us all though, they're mostly too busy watching Jeremy Kyle and swilling cheap lager to get off the couch and use it.

And for the few that do make it to the polling station, the choices they have are limited...

Because all the mainstream parties are well aware of just how disastrous it would be to curtail immigration in a meaningful way.

So they'll continue to pay lip service to the bigots and promise things they'll never deliver.

Ordinary working people will work out the impact of immigration by looking in their neighbourhood. They already have.

Oh, I doubt that.

Because if they had, they'd see the immigrant nurses and doctors taking care of them when they're sick because the native born population don't want to do it, the immigrant plumbers and electricians responding to their emergencies in the middle of the night because the native born ones can't be bothered, and the immigrant shopkeepers buying and running businesses in their local areas when the native born give up the fight against the supermarkets. Or the immigrants cleaning toilets, picking fruit, washing dishes, working in sewers, and a thousand other menial jobs that Brits just don't want to do.

But instead, they continue to think the immigrants are "stealing their jobs" when the facts prove otherwise.

Because they're bigoted and ignorant.

And want to blame others for their own failures.

Dinner party chattering classes, unaffected by working class issues, will defend their position with [STRIKE]graphs[/STRIKE] facts.

Fixed that for you.

Sampong

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Oh, I doubt that.

Because if they had, they'd see the immigrant nurses and doctors taking care of them when they're sick because the native born population don't want to do it,

We have had immigtant nurses and doctors for years, it has nothing to do with the current uncontrolled immigration we are experiencing.

the immigrant plumbers and electricians responding to their emergencies in the middle of the night

LOL - Never seen that happen

and the immigrant shopkeepers buying and running businesses in their local areas when the native born give up the fight against the supermarkets

Haven't seen immigrants keeping local businesses open - but in my local area we have a lot of Polish shops selling Polish food for the Polish population, not sure how this fights against the supermarkets but there you go. Incidentally, some of these "shops" have been prosecuted for selling fake alcohol which can cause blindness or even death. I think I will stick to Supermarkets supply chain.

.

Or the imomigrants cleaning tilets, picking fruit, washing dishes, working in sewers, and a thousand other menial jobs that Brits just don't want to do.

These immigrants you speak of really are the saviour of our country. What about the ones claiming benefits and committing crimes.

[STRIKE]Because they're[/STRIKE]I am bigoted and ignorant.

Fixed that for you.