Buying a house with no land registry or deeds

gwernybwch

I've recently put an offer accepted on a house which was accepted. My solictor gets to work on doing the conveyancing, but it turns out that the house itself has no land registry records and the deeds themselves are so poor that they can't be used. Added to that the previous owner bought a parcel of land to the front and to the side of the house, for which there are no records.

Has anyone dealt with similar circumstances before and is able to give an estimate of 'on average' gaining land registry and deed records takes?

Cue responses of 'it takes as long as it takes'.

Thanks in advance for any replies.

G_M

The seller is going to have great difficulty proving ownership of both the property and the additional land, therefore you could be paying someone who does not own....

If th seller can prove they've lived there and used the land, for an extended period, the LR might grant a Title, with reservation - I believe there is a process for this.

Personally I'd walk away.

The seller needs to sort this out before trying to sell.

C_Mababejive

About 50% of the UKs land is unregistered.

G_M

C_Mababejive wrote: »

About 50% of the UKs land is unregistered.

Don't know the statistics but possibly true.

The differerence is that most of those owners have deeds proving their ownership - just as was the case with every property pre-Land Registration.

But where the deeds are missing or defective.....

gwernybwch

G_M wrote: »

The seller needs to sort this out before trying to sell.

I think that everyone with a basic knowledge of property matters knows this, apart from the seller and his 'legally qualified' daughter-in-law...........

G_M wrote: »

Personally I'd walk away.

This is the second issue that I've had with the purchase of this property. The first one was that probate hadn't even been sought when they put it on the market!

This second issue has now pushed me to that tipping point. I've instructed my Solicitor to cease any chargeable work and to provide an estimate for work completed so far.

To make as best of an informed decision as possible, I need to get a feel for an estimate as to how long these types of matters sometimes are resolved.
Hence I'd appreciate any time estimates from anyone that has previously been through something similar.

vectistim

We don't know what paperwork the sellers can find.
This seems to give a good summary of what they will be trying to do:
http://www.inbrief.co.uk/land-law/registering-unregistered-land.htm
In particular the section on Epitome of Title
During HIP times Epitomes were usually produced in a couple of weeks, but that's assuming paperwork was available, but from here we really can't tell how long it will take the sellers to find whatever paperwork they have and get their solicitor to assemble it in a sensible format.

This lists the types of title that the Land Registry can provide:
http://www.iconvey.co.uk/articles/classes-of-title-1176883/index.php
If the sellers don't have sufficient paperwork I suppose the LR might go for Possessory rather than Absolute Title. If that's the case I'd want an indemnity policy from the sellers that would compensate me, as buyer, in the (unlikely) event that someone else turns up with a claim to the property.

C_Mababejive

G_M wrote: »

Don't know the statistics but possibly true.

The differerence is that most of those owners have deeds proving their ownership - just as was the case with every property pre-Land Registration.

But where the deeds are missing or defective.....

A lot of the land was stolen or sequestrated...so there was no need to prove ownership. A simple beheading or sword point would suffice.

BobQ

C_Mababejive wrote: »

A lot of the land was stolen or sequestrated...so there was no need to prove ownership. A simple beheading or sword point would suffice.

Assuming this not one of those pre-nineteenth century houses which have remained in the same familiy ever since most properties will have deeds but they may not be registered if they have never been sold since registration became compulsory.If the deeds have been lost, the seller has to sort this by some means.

It will take quite a while I suspect, I spent nine months just trying to resolve a conflict between the deeds of adjacent properties.


It may be that the deeds to adjacent properties and other records can suggest a resolution that the LR will accept, probably a Deed of Rectification that can be agreed by all concerned. For example if the properties either side were built at the same time maybe a Deed could be based on them.

It may also be possible to take out insurance against a future dispute.

gwernybwch

BobQ wrote: »

It may be that the deeds to adjacent properties and other records can suggest a resolution that the LR will accept, probably a Deed of Rectification that can be agreed by all concerned. For example if the properties either side were built at the same time maybe a Deed could be based on them.

Thanks for the reply, it has helped me get a better understanding of the process now.

vectistim wrote: »

This seems to give a good summary of what they will be trying to do:
http://www.inbrief.co.uk/land-law/registering-unregistered-land.htm
If the sellers don't have sufficient paperwork I suppose the LR might go for Possessory rather than Absolute Title. If that's the case I'd want an indemnity policy from the sellers that would compensate me, as buyer, in the (unlikely) event that someone else turns up with a claim to the property.

Thanks for the links.
I've spoken to my Solicitor today and they were talking about going down the Possessory / indemnity route on the additional plots of land.

BobQ wrote: »

It will take quite a while I suspect, I spent nine months just trying to resolve a conflict between the deeds of adjacent properties.

My Solicitor has given an estimate of a month - reading about all the processes that they need to go through, I think that this might be wishful thinking!

Miss_Ratty

Oh gosh, we recently looked at and put an offer in on a house like this but were put off by the hassle it could cause as we're so unfamiliar with this type of thing, but let us know how it goes as it would be great advice/learning for others x