To those who have began their working life in the recession...

quantic

The OP did put the fact that they were a grad in the thread title.

I would suspect that 30 years ago, the equivalent of a web designer would have been considered a trade or craft rather than a degree type of employment.

Point taken, I didn't mean it in that context really, in my head I was sort of just saying - people who have finished school, uni, whatever within the timeframe of the recession beginning. Not so much limited to degree's.

Maybe I should have titled this thread "To those who have began their working life in the recession..."

Its pretty amazing how many different ways someone can take a perfectly innocent thread haha, I have nothing but respect for people who do apprenticeships, or other methods to approaching their working life. In fact, I have nothing but respect for anyone who does any job, regardless of how they go there or its perceived value.

Sapphire

I think one of the differences between now and the past is that until recently there was far less globalization and this country could provide employment for its citizens. (The dangers of globalization in this respect were forseen by some.)

Until about 15 years ago, the impression was that industries and businesses were constantly springing up, innovating and developing. In many professions, you used to be able to start right at the bottom and work your way up in a profession of your choice. There was often also much more loyalty and a sense of responsibility in the management towards its employees – many companies were quite paternalistic, which isn't the case now. The paternalistic attitude had an opposite effect, leading to the loyalty of employees towards the company they worked for, with good results for all (and company profits) in my experience. You don't see much of such attitudes these days – everyone seems out for themselves and the workplace is pretty ruthless in most cases. I don't meet many people who actually enjoy their jobs these days.

Now there just seems to be a constant rush to copy/outdo what other people are doing in order to try to earn billions with the corresponding lifestyle, but it all seems quite ephemeral, with (generally) no real sense of wanting to build something of value and usefulness that will last.

It's late and I am in a hurry so don't know if this makes sense...

N1AK

Sapphire wrote: »

I think one of the differences between now and the past is that until recently there was far less globalization and this country could provide employment for its citizens.

Nice theory but unless you mean way, way, way back then the figures don't support it:

quantic

Sapphire wrote: »

There was often also much more loyalty and a sense of responsibility in the management towards its employees – many companies were quite paternalistic, which isn't the case now. The paternalistic attitude had an opposite effect, leading to the loyalty of employees towards the company they worked for, with good results for all (and company profits) in my experience. You don't see much of such attitudes these days – everyone seems out for themselves and the workplace is pretty ruthless in most cases. I don't meet many people who actually enjoy their jobs these days.

Now there just seems to be a constant rush to copy/outdo what other people are doing in order to try to earn billions with the corresponding lifestyle, but it all seems quite ephemeral, with (generally) no real sense of wanting to build something of value and usefulness that will last.

You pretty much summarised perfectly what I feel like I have been experiencing since I started working, we have a family business (which I have chosen not to be part of) so I have seen a company grow from the ground up, my dad has given his employee's a pay rise every year since he started the company, when the recession hit he took a 35% pay decrease so that he didn't have to let some of his staff go. Can I see my employers doing this for me? Not in a million years.

It all feels a bit cut throat these days, and not in a "the best man gets the job way", I actually feel like barely anyone high up in my company, companies I've previously worked in or companies my friends work in have got there through merit, it seems like an awful lot of backstabbing goes on now days.

Someone asked me the other day if I would be prepared to stab someone in the back to make myself look better, they seemed pretty astounded that I said no.

It makes me pretty sad that its come to this, maybe not the case for everyone but what you said certainly represents a very accurate description of mine and my close friends working lives thus far.

somethingcorporate

I graduated in 2007.

By Christmas of my final year I had applied for 10+ grad schemes and had a good few interviews. I managed to land a job in February of my final year for a FTSE100 company with 75+ applicants for every place so I count myself very lucky.

Since then I have continued to have a good ride - doubled my salary, been promoted twice, had good bonuses and got some formal accountancy training in to boot. My peers have really polarised - some have gone back home to work in a local Pizza Hut, others have gone on to be self-employed earning £200k+.

I would have drifted had it not been for the love and support of my (now) wife. She is a real go-getter and I am fairly laid back. Without her I would have been a bit of a drifter. I put a lot of my achievement of being in the right place at the right time and do count myself as very fortunate.

I do tend to find though that the harder I work the luckier I get.

chewmylegoff

quantic wrote: »

Its beginning to feel like this on going economic struggle is going to be all I'll ever experience, will the UK recover or have we peaked? I can't decide if times are really as bad as we think or just if we have better tools now to moan about them (internet, social media)?

is it really that much of a struggle for you though? you seem to be doing pretty well compared to some. alright, it looks like you've had some instability in the work place, but you've never wanted for work, and given that you were on the housing ladder within 3 years of graduating (presumably despite being saddled with significant student debt) and have paid off 5% of your mortgage in 2 years, is it really all that bad? seems not too shabby a start in the working world to me.

quantic

chewmylegoff wrote: »

is it really that much of a struggle for you though? you seem to be doing pretty well compared to some. alright, it looks like you've had some instability in the work place, but you've never wanted for work, and given that you were on the housing ladder within 3 years of graduating (presumably despite being saddled with significant student debt) and have paid off 5% of your mortgage in 2 years, is it really all that bad? seems not too shabby a start in the working world to me.

I didn't take out any student loans, I worked part-time while I was at Uni and paid for my course fee's that way. Its taken having basically no life for the past 5 years to get to this stage.

kabayiri

We may look back on the pre-crunch work situation as one of halcyon days.

I have a feeling that UK labour costs are still considered too high by the government to make us competitive. We may see wage inflation lag general inflation for some time, effectively lowering the standard of living *

(* I know Mr Ree will come back and say this isn't true for anyone living South of Watford...)

chewmylegoff

quantic wrote: »

I didn't take out any student loans, I worked part-time while I was at Uni and paid for my course fee's that way. Its taken having basically no life for the past 5 years to get to this stage.

i don't think that's really that different to what you would have had to do pre-2007 to get into a similar position within 5 years of leaving uni.

i suppose if i had had no life in the first 5 years of work i might have been able to save up enough money to put a house deposit together, might have managed to save about £15k-20k I suppose (£20k would have been a real push), and could have got a 5x salary mortgage which would have been £150k, so might have managed to buy a flat for about £160k in 2005 (although being in London i wouldn't have wanted to actually live in that flat).

instead i just spent all of the money i earned on lager.

SingleSue

I left school in 1986, worked through the late 80's early 90's recession/recovery and although I was made redundant twice during that time, it didn't have a negative impact on my salary. I was one of the lucky ones, seeing my salary really take off from £3400 in 1987 to 30k plus by 1991.

It did catch us on the bum with house prices though, we saw our property which we purchased in 1990, decrease to half the price we paid for it by late 1993, early 1994, just at the wrong time for us as my health after having a child took a real bashing and I was unable to work for 6 months, so we ended up losing it all (very much shortened version!)

Education - I didn't go to uni or do A levels, I just had 'O' levels. I was lucky in that I already had a part time job which turned into a full time one, so walked straight into a job and applied for more suited employment in a better field in the meantime. The better job in a more suited field came about in early 1987, they took a chance on me despite not having any of the experience they asked for and I never looked back after that.