Should automatic benefits be cut for those who "don't need them"?

N1AK

A._Badger wrote: »

Are you seriously suggesting that people stay in their houses because they get a payment of £200?

Perhaps encourage is the wrong word. Removes one of the reasons for changing. Obviously a large part of the reason why old people stay at home is they 'want' to. There are also old people who can afford heating who freeze to death. Finally there are old people who continue to live in a house that is ill-designed for them, too large and expensive to run and requires excessive effort to maintain because they are now so uncomfortable and afraid of change that they will not move. They end up moving, often after their partner dies, to a home where they aren't unable to integrate or be meaningfully involved in the community.

I've seen the story played out often enough to find it one of the most depressing, and yet easily avoidable, mistakes with how our elderly are looked after (and look after themselves).

N1AK

CLAPTON wrote: »

You chose to link the cost of 'pensions and healthcare (for the elderly) with spending your taxes 'effectively and fairly'.

No I didn't. I, again, suggest you read what I wrote and not what you have got it in your head that you read If that sounds impolite then please put it in the context of someone who has twice been accused of saying something, that they haven't, by you.

N1AK

Loanranger wrote: »

Lumbered with ?
You wouldn't be here at all were it not for the older generation that you are now lumbered with.
How about you learn some respect, sonny boy?

Ah well, you'll be old one day and will view the world through a rather different lens.

I respect those who earn it. If that's the best argument you could think of and the most effective way of expressing it then you'll have to try harder, Gramps. It's pretty pathetic to think you deserve either respect, or credit for the existence of all who came after you, just because you happened to be born before them.

Skinto_7

The problem with this country and its debt is not down to those who have worked hard and paid into everything they were asked to now claiming the benifits of that hard work, its due to all those who have never done a days work but seem to think they have a god given right to be no worse off than those who have earned everything they have got.

IMO this country continues to discourage those who have a drive and work ethic to do the best they can by expecting them to fund the lifestyles of those who have no interest in doing a decents day work, many of which still manage to have a house, car, kids, flat screen TV's and spend many an hour in thier local boozers and bookmakers.

Taking these universal benefits from selected groups of people who have worked hard all thier lives to have what they have, IMO is another way of discouraging the ambition to do well for yourself that we should be promoting in the country not destroying.

CLAPTON

N1AK wrote: »

No I didn't. I, again, suggest you read what I wrote and not what you have got it in your head that you read If that sounds impolite then please put it in the context of someone who has twice been accused of saying something, that they haven't, by you.

language doth divide us; rereading adds no clarity

N1AK

grizzly1911 wrote: »

In 20 + years time you may well find yourself placing a greater reliance on a health service personally despite how well you luck after yourself, stuff happens.

If you have or intend to have a family then you may well be making use of that service much sooner.

In In previous posts you have said that you will provide for yourself through life and don't intend to be a "burden" on the system.

I don't believe I have ever said that I don't intend to be a 'burden'; however if I am mistaken feel free to correct me and I will apologise for it. I have said that my planning for retirement is based on no state aid, but that's purely because I'm not sure any will be forthcoming.

Further, I don't consider the elderly a burden. I think as a generation they have mismanaged the countries finances. I believe they are still in denial about the liability they have placed upon the current and future generations. I also think they are just as self-serving in their interests as other demographics. Finally, I don't believe that they should be treated as sacred just because they didn't die younger, but frankly that isn't the real reason they get such favourable treatment, which is: Because they decide who governs.

I may well use the health service in future. Although I fear that the service offered may be limited due to the difficulty of funding it as pension costs increase and the % of the population of working age falls.

My issue has nothing to do with individuals covering themselves. I didn't state my tax for any reason other than to say I am willing to pay it. I do currently have the good fortune to be in a position where we comfortably exceed our fair share in taxation, but I don't believe I deserve either credit or special treatment for that.

pqrdef

N1AK wrote: »

It's pretty pathetic to think you deserve either respect

But he does - for the simple reason that you could be him one day.

We look after children because we were once children, needing to be looked after. We look after old folk because we may one day be old folk, needing to be looked after. It's that simple.

Time for you to grow up and become a human being.

McKneff

Niak, you'll get your share of the benefit system in the future, for your sake I hope its not ESA, DLA because Im sure you would rather be working and paying taxes than clam DLA because you are crippled and in a wheelchair.

And youre damn wrong, we, well me anyway, do deserve respect, we have been through what you are doing now, we paid for the generation before us, its an ongoing thing, it stands to reason, we had to, no choice you see. We paid all these taxes being told the government would look after us in our old age, care etc. now they are making us sell our homes which we worked damn hard for to save them money in care fees, Tory, Labour Liberal, they are all the same.

I like my bus pass, its the only blumming perk (apart from 60% state pension and heating allowance) that I get from the government

N1AK

Skinto_7 wrote: »

Taking these universal benefits from selected groups of people who have worked hard all thier lives to have what they have,

If the universal benefit was £100,000 a year would you consider it inviolate? If not, then why take that position without considering it with others.

Free bus passes and winter fuel allowances are recent benefits for pensioners. They weren't funded via the contributions they made during their working career.

Finally a universal benefit goes to everyone and it is unbelievably incorrect to act like all pensioners were hard working individuals. Doing so, if anything, encourages the kind of entitlement society you seem so keen to avoid.

My single biggest issue with pensions and benefits for the elderly, which you may have noticed I haven't proposed changing, is that 95% of people can't even consider changes to them. There's this blind determination to stop anything that 'might' lead to less benefits for pensioners. A particularily !!!!!! argument, which hasn't come out here, is the morons who say they are fighting for good pensions so they can have good pensions when they retire. These truly special people don't realise that spending more on benefits now is almost certainly guaranteed to lead to less spending on benefits in future :rotfl:

N1AK

McKneff wrote: »

We paid all these taxes being told the government would look after us in our old age, care etc. now they are making us sell our homes which we worked damn hard for to save them money in care fees, Tory, Labour Liberal, they are all the same.

You voted in governments that massively overspent and undertaxed. You voted in governments that didn't fund pensions but promised to fund them by taxing future generations (thanks). Maybe they lied to you; maybe everyone was just really stupid or over-optimistic. Either way you wrote cheques that you're now asking your kids to pay.

I worked damn hard for the £2,500 I spent paying your pensions last year; you want me to pay another £150 so you can leave your house to your kids? Good luck with that :rotfl: