Growing UK University Tuition Fee's

heretolearn_2

Helloooo:j

I came back and corrected myself on the ex-poly comment as I realised it was unfair. My position is now that you are wasting time and money if you go to one of the dreggy places towards the bottom of the league table, regardless of the history of the place. Which is what everyone here seems to be saying as well. I'm sorry if that offends anyone who did go to a dreggy place but pretending all unis/degrees are equal is just pointless. You don't have to go to the very top, but for goodness sake don't get conned into going to the bottom either.

Towns with 3 or 4 unis? Well, if you include all the colleges where you can sort of go to uni by doing a degree there that is affiliated to a uni, plenty. Try taking a look at the 'which uni' website and see the list of 100s of basic 6th form colleges/private colleges etc now offering degrees. I'm not saying all these things are a bad idea to do, but go into it with your eyes open.

eg if you lived in Southend on Sea, Essex, 5 mins research turns up that it now offers campuses of Anglia Ruskin University (106th out of 116 on the university league table), University of Essex (39th out of 116 on league table), and through the South Essex College degrees from either University of Essex again, or East London University (115th out of 116 on the league tables). So 3 providers of degrees from 3 universities, but you've only got to look at those figures to see that realistically one one of the options is worth doing...yet plenty of people sign up for the others paying just as much in fees and getting a degree that is bottom of the heap. The league tables take into account things like results, how successful graduates are at finding employment, and student satisfaction. All really important statistics. That's just one little town. I think the same thing is happening all over. Pick carefully, that's all my advice is, if you are paying top whack (which all students do) make sure you are getting something worth it.

I'm fingers crossed going to do a masters when I finish my degree and I'm looking closely at Goldsmiths. This is in the 50-ish mark for the league tables, so I'm not saying at all that it has to be top or don't bother. But be aware of the options and value of the education you are buying.

There are other criteria that are more important when choosing your uni than distance from home.

StaffieTerrier

I think it's important your son decides the type of career he wants and works out the best way of getting it. There are numerous way of achieving a career.

I went to Uni as it was the only way into my chosen career (Scientist). My friend left school without doing A-Levels. She went straight into a trainee role and worked her way up the ladder. She now earns much more than me and got a degree, paid for by her employer, as a part time mature student.

If the only way into a career is a degree then the fees will eventually pay for themselves, once he's working.

P.S. If your son wants to do a 'technical' subject, a sandwich degree is the way to go. Without my year in industry I would have never got my first scientific job.

mynameistallulah

heretolearn wrote: »

Helloooo:j

I came back and corrected myself on the ex-poly comment as I realised it was unfair. My position is now that you are wasting time and money if you go to one of the dreggy places towards the bottom of the league table, regardless of the history of the place. Which is what everyone here seems to be saying as well. I'm sorry if that offends anyone who did go to a dreggy place but pretending all unis/degrees are equal is just pointless. You don't have to go to the very top, but for goodness sake don't get conned into going to the bottom either.

Towns with 3 or 4 unis? Well, if you include all the colleges where you can sort of go to uni by doing a degree there that is affiliated to a uni, plenty. Try taking a look at the 'which uni' website and see the list of 100s of basic 6th form colleges/private colleges etc now offering degrees. I'm not saying all these things are a bad idea to do, but go into it with your eyes open.

eg if you lived in Southend on Sea, Essex, 5 mins research turns up that it now offers campuses of Anglia Ruskin University (106th out of 116 on the university league table), University of Essex (39th out of 116 on league table), and through the South Essex College degrees from either University of Essex again, or East London University (115th out of 116 on the league tables). So 3 providers of degrees from 3 universities, but you've only got to look at those figures to see that realistically one one of the options is worth doing...yet plenty of people sign up for the others paying just as much in fees and getting a degree that is bottom of the heap. The league tables take into account things like results, how successful graduates are at finding employment, and student satisfaction. All really important statistics. That's just one little town. I think the same thing is happening all over. Pick carefully, that's all my advice is, if you are paying top whack (which all students do) make sure you are getting something worth it.

So we have established that not every town has three or four unis? In fact you have made an extremely tentative link to one.

Out of interest, have you even been to university? You do realise the importance of being able to substantiate what you say?

wantsajob

You can't always pick and choose the University you go to. Particularly if its a popular course at one of the best Universities, and you don't get A's and B's.

I strongly agree with StaffieTerrier that courses with a year on a placement are invaluable. An employer will go for a graduate with experience over a plain graduate, every time.

My other thought is the OP should not be over concerned with the cost itself, unless their wages are at such a level they would have to pay. Look at all the advice on this site about student loans. I'm not sure how it works these days, but I suspect it's similar to mine in that you only start paying back on a percentage on the amount you earn above a fixed level. It is not considered a debt etc. Get a minimum wage job the rest of you life, and you might never pay a penny back. IIRC you get a loan for the tuition fees now, and a grant that doesn't have to be paid back. The grant is, therefore, effectively free money - which you'd be throwing away if you didn't get the loan for the tuition fees.

heretolearn_2

Yawn, sorry I didn't realise anyone would take my comment so very literally. This is just some advice on a forum for a parent who doesn't have much knowledge of uni but wants to do what is right for their kid. That's my opinion for them, they are free to take it or leave it. My opinion was don't be scared off by the fees, but choose carefully. And not to study towards the bottom of the uni league table. Is that very poor advice? Would you advice them to not choose carefully and not weigh up the quality of what's on offer? To go to the uni that's 116th out of 116 on the league table and assume it's just as good as number 1, or number 34 or number 87?

If you read my posts you will see that no, I did not go to university, although I'm currently doing a degree for fun alongside running my own business. Most of my comment here comes from an employer's point of view, as I also said, having learned to disregard an awful lot of degrees. Choosing the wrong course or place DOES matter a lot. It's not about snobbery. It's about getting a decent degree that helps you in your future.

I am very suspicious of a lot of the newer degree providers, many of which are only colleges running a handful of affiliated degree courses. Why am I suspicious? Because I've interviewed graduates from them who can barely communicate in English. Some who cannot write a simple sentence. This is the calibre of their graduates who think their bit of paper is a magic pass to a good job. It isn't.

I've interviewed someone for a marketing role who had a marketing degree and was now teaching marketing at the same place he studied. Had never actually worked in marketing, it was all theory, and yet he was now the 'expert' teaching others. Which might be ok if he could put his money where his mouth was, but he was utterly clueless in the interview. Couldn't translate theory into practice.

I've also very recently interviewed someone who was teaching the audit courses on an accounting degree despite NOT being fully qualified in audit himself (he wasn't even going to bother qualifying, that aspect of accountancy didn't interest him) and demonstrating a really shocking lack of understanding or knowledge of audits in the interview, and worse still a complete disregard of the legislation and regulation that applies to us with a great deal of liability attached. To the extent that employing him could have led us to being sued, losing our practising license, and having to fold that part of the firm. But there he is teaching others to do it all wrong as well... So from my experience, the quality of tutors in the colleges local to us, at least, leaves a lot to be desired.

StaffieTerrier

heretolearn wrote: »

Helloooo:j

I came back and corrected myself on the ex-poly comment as I realised it was unfair. My position is now that you are wasting time and money if you go to one of the dreggy places towards the bottom of the league table, regardless of the history of the place. Which is what everyone here seems to be saying as well. I'm sorry if that offends anyone who did go to a dreggy place but pretending all unis/degrees are equal is just pointless. You don't have to go to the very top, but for goodness sake don't get conned into going to the bottom either.

It's actually course content that should take priority over league table places. A course in the very best University can be a load of rubbish if the course content isn't sufficient enough to give a graduate a step on the ladder to the career of their choice.

I did my degree and a post graduate qualification in a low down in the league 'dreggy' University. The post graduate course was actually better respected and has a higher OFSTED rating than the local Russell Group University.

You're right that all degrees are not equal, but if you do a degree in a subject relevant to your career and make all efforts to get experience, where your degree comes from becomes of less important. I've short listed applicants for jobs and I've never judged their ability to the job based on where they did their degree.

mynameistallulah

heretolearn wrote: »

Would you advice them to not choose carefully and not weigh up the quality of what's on offer? To go to the uni that's 116th out of 116 on the league table and assume it's just as good as number 1, or number 34 or number 87?

Do league tables tell you everything? Is that why universities have different rankings according to different provider?

You need to open your eyes a bit - you come across as very narrow minded.

wantsajob

I guess a good example of league table peculiarities is that Leeds Met is 95th overall on http://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings? but if you look at their table for Sports Science http://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings?s=Sports+Science Leeds Met is 12th. Actually one place above Leeds University (34th overall, 13th for Sports Science). Not bad for a "crap" ex Poly. I chose this example as I happened to know that Leeds Met is well respected for Sports Science.

I studied my undergraduate degree at an ex poly, and did a masters at a red brick Russel Group uni. I got the impression from this that the standards were actually reasonably good at the ex poly. If I am completely honest, I think had I done my undergraduate degree at the one I did my masters, I'd have a 2:1 rather than a first. The main reason I believe this is, on comparing the module descriptions, there seemed to be more of a focus on examination for assessment than essays, and I tended to get better grades in essays. I don't think this reflects a dumbing down of standards at the ex poly though. All work marked above 70% was automatically sent to another University to be externally verified. I suppose it makes sense they focus more on exams, when they had higher standards for entry, and those who got in will probably generally do better at exams than coursework.

FATBALLZ

Studying abroad might be worth a look, I believe you can get a degree in the EU (taught in English) at a decent Uni for fees in the £100s, rather than the £10,000s you would measure the cost in here. Learning a new language and the initiative to go abroad would look v good on a CV too.

The tuition fee situation is a !!!! take, so whatever he does make sure it leads onto a good career. My brother is applying for Music degree courses... he can play the guitar a bit, like 1 million others. Waste of time.

Pupnik

I have to say there is far too much focus on league tables in this thread, as the last few posters have mentioned it really depends on the subject you want to study. I did my undergrad at a fairly low down the list university - in fact it wasn't a university when I was there, and it does poorly on the league tables partly because it is such a specialised place where every single degree is practical and it doesn't offer any research based degrees so loses points for that.

For a while I worked at another university that is again in the lower third of the list but is extremely highly regarded as one of the best in the country for the vocational training and degrees that it offers.

I did my MSc at a 'red brick' uni towards the high end of the list but I didn't choose it for that reason - indeed if I were to have chosen my university for the best course of its type I would have gone for a much 'lower' university but did not have the luxury of that choice as I studied where I could afford to.

What is far more important than the university is the student - not everyone is cut out for uni, you do need to have the right mindset as you get out of it what you put in. Should I ever have children I will be looking at their university options on a case by case basis to determine whether university is right for them or not.