George Osborne MUST now U-Turn 'Granny Tax'!

MonkeyMad

teajug wrote: »

As for your last sentence that figures with UK today, would you be the kind to go out go out and beat up the disable and frail pensioners for fun that you hear so much about nowadays.:mad::mad::mad:

Ah this is about disabled and frail pensioners now is it - I thought Grannies were being taxed just because they were of pension age. I thought it was about all pensioners loosing money. Despite the fact that not all pensioners actually claim this allowance when they are entitled to, and only about 50% of pensioners would benefit even if they did claim. Does removal of this allowance make you disabled and frail then - did anone tell the Chancellor?

As to your point, no need to. Anyone that fails to mitigate severe discomfort through loosing £1.50 a week doesn't need me to cause them more problems, as they would seem more than capable of being the cause of their own downfall. Shadenfreude would come to the front in that situation for this particular person I'm afraid since they obviously don't need the money.

teajug

mystic_trev wrote: »

I wonder who the last Government were looking after?;)

LOL the last government was looking after themselves Blair and Co were only interested in becoming millionaires as soon as possible and now we have a Cameron and Co that are millionaires and they are certainly looking after themselves and their friends.. :mad::mad::mad:

gadgetmind

browniej wrote: »

whilst the personal allowance has been totally removed for those earning over £150k.

Sorry, but that's twice someone has mentioned £150k as the point where personal allowance starts to be clawed back. It used to be in two tranches, with trigger points at £100k and £150k, but it's now all the the lower number.

The current rules are -

"If your 'adjusted net income is over £100,000, your Personal Allowance is reduced by half of the amount – £1 for every £2 – you have over that limit. If your income is large enough, your Personal Allowance will be reduced to nil. This £100,000 limit applies irrespective of your age."

Meanwhile, the 40% lower limit keeps being reduced, so it's a triple whammy of nothing at 0%, an ever decreasing amount at 20%, loads at 40%. Oh, and don't forget the ever-increasing NI bill.

teajug

browniej wrote: »

Exactly. So why should pensioners suffer no loss but workers with children suffer a 3.7% loss? Pensioners are being asked to take a small hit for a couple of years to allow all lower paid workers a bit of a benefit and yet you are all up in arms over it.
It's not though.
Starting with 2011 and ending with 2014, the standard personal allowance will have risen by 42.16% whilst the personal allowance has been totally removed for those earning over £150k. With that much increased standard personal allowance it will see the lower paid taken out of tax altogether and those under the higher rate threshold paying less tax.

How much lower will pay have to go for people to be in receipt of this extra allowance At present personal allowance is just over 10k how can anyone live on that with rent to pay as well as council tax and other essential outgoings.

Whereas people earning over 150k can look forward to a big fat increase in their pay due to their tax reduction how fair that....

Surely it is better that everyone except the higher earners has a higher personal allowance rather than just those over 65?

Yes, that is what it is like in other civilized EU countries, but this government is only interest making a huge divide between the rich and poor and seems to want to get rid of the middle class incomes so they can rule from the top. The super rich will have all the power and clout and us poor at the bottom can be more easily manipulated. The rich can rule the poor at their will. :mad:

browniej

gadgetmind wrote: »

Sorry, but that's twice someone has mentioned £150k as the point where personal allowance starts to be clawed back.

I didn't actually say that. I said at £150k it was totally removed.

However having checked for this year I have discovered it's totally removed at £116,210 and not £150k as I thought so apologies for that.

MonkeyMad

teajug wrote: »

How much low pay do people have to be in receipt of before they pay tax by 2014. At present it is just over 10k how can anyone live on that with rent to pay as well as council tax and other essential outgoings.

I don't know. Perhaps their personal allowance should rise to reflect their circumstances. Easiest way would be to raise and equalise the level at which no tax is paid amongst low income groups. Hang on...

browniej

teajug wrote: »

How much low pay do people have to be in receipt of before they pay tax by 2014. At present it is just over 10k how can anyone live on that with rent to pay as well as council tax and other essential outgoings.

I wasn't suggesting it was a good thing. I was asking how it would be ok for a pensioner to have a £10.5k allowance with probably no rent as the mortgage has been paid compared to someone younger having a £7.5k allowance who does have to pay rent. Surely it's better for them all to have a higher allowance? That higher personal allowance also ensures that anyone paying basic rate tax pays less.

Care to answer that?

Whereas people earning over 150k can look forward to a big fat increase in their pay, is that fair....

As they are still paying 5% more than the temporary measure was intended for, is that fair?

Where is the incentive to work and look after ourselves and perhaps also provide jobs for others, if we just tax the hell out of everybody?

MonkeyMad

Indeed, when you are taxed at more than 50% that is the point most people realise they aren't getting the most benefit from their additional effort. Which is when they begin to minimise their tax exposure.

If the rate goes up to 50% again how much should the basic allowance drop so we all take a share?

ffacoffipawb

mystic_trev wrote: »

I wonder who the last Government were looking after?;)

Chavs, scroungers and layabouts.

Poor people are too thick to understand that the Labour Party is their enemy and not their friend. It wants to raise the drawbridge, whereas the Conservatives want to lower it so anyone can succeed (if they can be arsed).

teajug

browniej wrote: »

I wasn't suggesting it was a good thing. I was asking how it would be ok for a pensioner to have a £10.5k allowance with probably no rent as the mortgage has been paid compared to someone younger having a £7.5k allowance who does have to pay rent. Surely it's better for them all to have a higher allowance? That higher personal allowance also ensures that anyone paying basic rate tax pays less.
Care to answer that?

You are assuming that pensioners do not have any outgoings not all pensioners are mortgage free or they may have rent and council tax at 75% not if they live along it should be 50%. Also I know pensioners that have to pay a mortgage and also had to re-mortgage to pay for large repairs such as roofs and decorating and other DIY jobs that they did when younger and perhaps in good health. Also some parent helps their offspring’s by giving them deposits for their home or paying for university or weddings etc. I know lots of people living in rented accommodation and they pay full rent as they are not able to maintain a property on their own and its outgoings such as insurance and council tax. I know pensioners that have took out equity on their home to survive rather than going to collect benefits.

Also if pensioners have go into a home where there is a carer on site for that block of older people they is a hefty service charge to pay for the upkeep of that block with added care attached to it, but that is the cost of their independence. If they go into a care/nursing home well then you have to be a millionaire to pay for that dreadful treatment dish out in these places, we all have seen the news recently.

As they are still paying 5% more than the temporary measure was intended for, is that fair?

Where is the incentive to work and look after ourselves and perhaps also provide jobs for others, if we just tax the hell out of everybody?

People that are earning £150K they are very wealthy as far some pensioners are concern, what would you do if you were residing in France they are planning to increase the taxes to 75% for the rich and that is what I called starting at the top and then let it trickle all the way down to the bottom as opposed to starting at the bottom how can it ever reach the top earners.

As for employing people we all know that there are tax incentives for small businesses. Also they hire tax accountants for that purpose to enable them to get the best tax allowance and it is all tax deductible.

:T