Old employer didnt pay csa but took money

hard_up_and_fed_up

CSA_Help wrote: »

Good point.

If you can provide bank statements that employer paid x and it tallies up with your pay slips then they should pursue your ex employer. Your not going to tell us it was cash in hand as then youd be stuffed.

It wasn't cash in hand but a bank transfer online.
There is no other info missing - as I stated in my original post they did contact us at some point between then but as we provided them with his employers information and spoke Witt the employers questioning that it may not have been paid we figured it was sorted after that as we didnt hear anything else and had no reason to believe that these people would take our money and not pay it.
Tvh contact from the csa is sparadic and contradicting at best.
We first unearthed this issue a couple of months ago when 3 different letters landed on the door claiming 3 different things, non of which make any sense!
It is often that we go ages without hearing from them and then get a load of correspondence at once.
As usual when you try to get hold of them it is tricky!
Hubby's caseworker is rarely available to talk to and a call back virtually un existent. We requested the statements which took 3 phone calls and arrived about 4 weeks after initial call.

The reason we asked for the p45 was to check the tax and NI thing.
The pay slips are very basic like out of a pad.
I had no idea that having them handwritten would be an issue or I would have told him to get printed ones.
He can request this from the tax office though right?

Fission

The legal position is that subject to conviction, the employer has stolen the money from the employee. That is that he has dishonestly appropriated it. The dishonesty stems from the lack of intention to send it to the correct destination and the intention to keep it.

The parent still has the debt to pay. He can, if he wishes, report the (as yet, technically suspected) theft to the police. If the employer coughs up PDQ he might avoid prosecution or conviction. The CSA can also prosecute the employer, but not under the Theft Act.

hard_up_and_fed_up

CSA_Help wrote: »

The DEO is between the employer and the CSA, however what makes it harder is the wage slips are hand written. Does the wage slips have the company logo etc. I would strt speaking again or failing that take advice from the CAb or a lawyer. They screwed up with my DEO once and wanted me to go to my employer to get the money back, however after telling them the DEO was between my employer and them i got a cheque in the post 2 days later for the overpayment.

I really don't think I could start speaking again thinking how they have stolen from us and landed us in the sh*t. We have tried to communicate on a business level through email but they have not responded.

Hmm71

E-mail isn't the best way to communicate with the CSA. You'd think it would be by now but all e-mails are sent to a central address where they are checked and sent to the, hopefully correct, office. Once there it's normally printed out by an admin assistant and put in the post tray to be dealt with along with all the other post.
It's also unlikely you would have just one caseworker. All cases are divided into workgroups and anyone in that workgroup should, in theory, be able to deal with your case. If you keep asking to speak to one particular person and that person isn't in you won't get anywhere. Try speaking to the team leader and insist your case is dealt with asap by someone. Probably still won't get you very far but good luck with it anyway.

kevin137

Fission wrote: »

The legal position is that subject to conviction, the employer has stolen the money from the employee. That is that he has dishonestly appropriated it. The dishonesty stems from the lack of intention to send it to the correct destination and the intention to keep it.

The parent still has the debt to pay. He can, if he wishes, report the (as yet, technically suspected) theft to the police. If the employer coughs up PDQ he might avoid prosecution or conviction. The CSA can also prosecute the employer, but not under the Theft Act.

I would go with this... You have the payslips proving payment, so if you contact the CSA and ask for statement of payments for the same period IN WRITING, then you could approach the police.

The police may well say it is a civil matter, but stand your ground and get a crime report from them, forward this to the CSA and it should stop any further action against you while it is being investigated.

It will probably be a long stressful process, but you need to do it, and you can't just ignore it, once they start liability proceedings it is all downhill...!!!

Do everything in writing with the CSA and send recorded delivery. Don;t send originals unless asked to, and keep copies of everything you DO send for your own records as they have a habit of losing !!!!...

Personally, i don't believe that you still have an obligation to pay, as you have legally fulfilled your obligation by having it withdrawn from your wages, that is a "contract" between the CSA and your employer, if they choose not to forward the payment, that is there problem. They impose a legal document, and that has been enforced upon you by your employer. That should be the end of the story for you...!

CSA_Help

hard_up_and_fed_up wrote: »

I really don't think I could start speaking again thinking how they have stolen from us and landed us in the sh*t. We have tried to communicate on a business level through email but they have not responded.

I wear the t shirt as well. Every time you complain its another idiot that responds or gets ignored all together. (Fact) When i called up about a letter i was told that it should have been cancelled.

Marisco

I think hard up means she cannot speak to the employers not the CSA! I would write to the employers and tell them that unless they sort it out PDQ, that you intend to go to the police and report them for theft.

hard_up_and_fed_up

Well we have got a reply from a second email asking what happened to the money and we have a reply stating that the money was taken and should have been paid to the CSA but wasn't and that as they (her husband) have now folded the 'company' that the CSA need to persue it with the folded company (her husband).
I know that the CSA will say tough get it yourself but i dont know how to approach this as she is trying to de personalise it by saying ot was the company but that was just her husband! As far as i am concerned, we are not creditors and there fore should not have to apply to be repaid. We never leant them the money in the first place - they just took it, spent it instead of paying it and now saying tough join the queue.
I want to get the money back as soon as poss with as little fuss as poss but how do i say in a round about manner 'no we will not join the queue give me back the money you stole or i will go to the police'. They do not seem to realise it is theft, just another bill they havent paid but surely that is not right?

CSA_Help

A deductions of earnings is a legal obligation on a company no matter what. The ex company your OH worked for has committed an offence. The CSA should pursue this on your behalf. Get your MP involved as you can prove that they were dedcucting csa money but the csa have stated they haven't received it. It is still a criminal offence and should be reported to the police, however depends what police officer you speak to. Make sure you get a crime report and punt it back to the CSA. You shouldn't be doing the running around. The bottom line its their problem.

hard_up_and_fed_up

CSA_Help wrote: »

A deductions of earnings is a legal obligation on a company no matter what. The ex company your OH worked for has committed an offence. The CSA should pursue this on your behalf. Get your MP involved as you can prove that they were dedcucting csa money but the csa have stated they haven't received it. It is still a criminal offence and should be reported to the police, however depends what police officer you speak to. Make sure you get a crime report and punt it back to the CSA. You shouldn't be doing the running around. The bottom line its their problem.

Thanks. I truely hope the CSA will sort it out with them. The last thing i need is to be getting in to another bun fight with the ex friends/employer.
I can't believe they would do that to us, we were very close friends and he was even in our wedding party just over a year ago and was as good as best man! Now when i see the wedding pics i feel that bad/sick feeling inside. And not one show of remorse from them!
I will get OH to ring the CSA and see what they said. I am SOOOO we have it in writing that they admit they owe it!!
Watch this space...