Scrap ISAs as most of the tax benefit goes to the rich?

heathcote123

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Or just prudent.
.

I think the word 'prudent' was hijacked a bit over the last decade - it now means to !!!! vast amounts of borrowed cash up the wall.

ILW

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Or just prudent.

Or of presbyterian beliefs.

Maybe thrift is the new fashion. Debt is yesterdays.

Prudence appears to be the ultimate sin that needs to be punished.

Save some cash and get it inflated away.

Put into a pension and BoE will use QE to wipe out it's value.

Yet take out a whacking remortgage to buy a BMW and book a couple of Caribbean holidays and we will drop the rate you pay to nearly zero.

Strange times indeed.

sss555s

Fella wrote: »

Don't make me laugh. As opposed to the previous Govt of multi-millionaires? Lying warmonger Blair earning fortunes courtesy of his US & middle-east fanbase? Lowlife Mendelson whos earnings have never been explained but who's wealth is undeniable? Or scumbag Brown copping huge cheques on the after-dinner circuit whilst simultaneously writing his memoirs - all the time on the taxpayer's "dime" as he collects his fat MPs fee despite almost never being seen anywhere near Westminster since he got booted out of No 10.

Hate all MPs by all means but pur-lease don't try to con anyone that the current lot are any worse than the absolute filth they replaced. And at least this lot might sort the economy out.

Best post I've read on here in a while, though I do think you went a bit light on Blair


My ISA allowance is used as one of my current pension provisions.

From my self employment I have no subsidised pension and the ISA was looking better than a Private pension when I looked at the returns.

This thread to me is the same as you asking you asking people with public sector pensions to give up all their tax breaks and just have a simple taxed % rise on their pension input.

I doubt if that would go down well.

grizzly1911

ILW wrote: »

Would it be possible to substitute the word "rich" with "successful"?

At these levels prudent would be a better term.

grizzly1911

[QUOTE=RenovationMan;53361563

The best tax haven I have is my pension. 40% tax relief on the way in and less than 20% tax on the way out[/QUOTE]

Not sure how old you are or where you are making that investment.

You may find that you aren't so happy with the performance of that pot at the end of the day. Once fees and PPP and carp annuity rates have taken their toll you may be grateful for that relief just to get back what you put in personally.

Pensions are one of the great lies or many.

grizzly1911

michaels wrote: »

In straightened economic times surely such a subsidy from the poor to the rich should be removed. We are also in an economic situation where whilst it makes snese for people to pay down debt and as mentioned above build up a rainy day fund, incentivising those with spare income to save it rather than spend in the wider economy is liekly to be exacerbating the recession.

One persons rainy day fund may be quite different to another.

I could see them being ended for new savings but I don't think taking back the tax break would win them too many votes. Be less popular than the pension raid by the last lot.

Why should I or any other ISA beneficiary go out and spend more of my stored income (already taxed once) to further bail out the country now. I will spend it when I want and no doubt be hit by VAT on my consumption.

RenovationMan

grizzly1911 wrote: »

Not sure how old you are or where you are making that investment.

You may find that you aren't so happy with the performance of that pot at the end of the day. Once fees and PPP and carp annuity rates have taken their toll you may be grateful for that relief just to get back what you put in personally.

Pensions are one of the great lies or many.

I don't need to wait until the 'end of the day' to view its performance, I can view it any time I like online. The pension pot is in a SIPP managed by myself and is doing extremely well. I was working in the City before and during the credit crunch and saw the writing on the wall and put all my money into a cash fund. I bought back in once the market had bottomed. All of the investments made at that time are still pushing 30% gains, even with all the Greece nonsense.

I also seemed to have bought corporate bond at the right time and I had a bunch of money (for 'bunch' read 'an amount of money of sufficient size to keep me up at night worrying about it') on Premier Foods when they were just under the 4p mark.

The majority of the money in the pension was put there by the government (in the form of 40% tax rebate plus some NI for those companies that used salary sacrifice) and company contributions (many around the 8% to 10% of salary mark).

Lastly, I won't be buying an annuity with this pension. It's sufficient size to allow me to put it into drawdown.

There are a lot of prejudices around pensions that I really don't understand. They are just like any other financial product - they work well for those who take the time to actually take an interest in their own finances and are prepared to learn to manage them in order to increase their net wealth.

Thrugelmir

RenovationMan wrote: »

they work well for those who take the time to actually take an interest in their own finances and are prepared to learn to manage them in order to increase their net wealth.

For once I am in total agreement with you.

Many people will have years of impoverished retirement to look forward to.

RenovationMan

grizzly1911 wrote: »

Not sure how old you are or where you are making that investment.

Sorry, I missed this. I'm just over 40 (hence I have an 'adventurous' portfolio) and the following screen dump from my pension login shows where I am making that investment:

Thrugelmir wrote: »

For once I am in total agreement with you.

Many people will have years of impoverished retirement to look forward to.

We agree on a lot of things Thrug. When we're giving advice on the other house boards we almost always seem to be in accord.

I agree that some people will be looking forward to a painful retirement. Still, those who hold similar views as grizzly can rest easy that although they are struggling financially in retirement, at least they didn't line the pockets of investment bankers while they built a pension pot. :cool:

p.s. I haven't balanced my portfolio in about 3 years, I might pop that graphic over to the investment boards and see what info I can glean from them.

grizzly1911

[QUOTE=RenovationMan;53369045:)

I agree that some people will be looking forward to a painful retirement. Still, those who hold similar views as grizzly can rest easy that although they are struggling financially in retirement, at least they didn't line the pockets of investment bankers while they built a pension pot. :cool:

[/QUOTE]

Thanks for an the insight over the last couple of posts. A number of people on here are very switched on and capable.

I didn't say I would be struggling I have a most of mine tucked up in in a DB fund with RPI linking, plus a a wide personal portfolio outside of pensions.

But I do know a number of people who have recently come up to accessing their pension or shortly to do so who are finding things not as they expected.

When you have had the benefit of 40% relief and the ability to manage your own pot and not be left at the mercy of "managers" and their fees it makes a big difference.

For those around the average wage whatever bit they manage to invest will be heavily affected by fees and will not make a massive difference to their existence IMO.