Help with solar panel quote

pullman

Hi

I am a long time reader of MSE but haven't posted before - however I have been given a quote for solar panels and as it's all new to me wanted some advice about it.

The quote is for a 'medium' system (6 panels - no mention of kwp figure !) - price is £9835 , or £6722 if the company can do before/after pics , board outside for 4 weeks and monitor bills for 6 months (would go for this if doing it).

The claimed FIT figure is £981 (plus £225 as they claim will save 50% on electric bill) and the 'headline grabbing' return over 25 years £43203 ........

All seems a bit 'too good to be true' , hence me asking for some advice - any will be gratefully received.

Happy to answer any questions about what was explained - but didn't want to make this too long to start with.

Thanks

Martyn1981

pullman wrote: »

Hi

I am a long time reader of MSE but haven't posted before - however I have been given a quote for solar panels and as it's all new to me wanted some advice about it.

The quote is for a 'medium' system (6 panels - no mention of kwp figure !) - price is £9835 , or £6722 if the company can do before/after pics , board outside for 4 weeks and monitor bills for 6 months (would go for this if doing it).

The claimed FIT figure is £981 (plus £225 as they claim will save 50% on electric bill) and the 'headline grabbing' return over 25 years £43203 ........

All seems a bit 'too good to be true' , hence me asking for some advice - any will be gratefully received.

Happy to answer any questions about what was explained - but didn't want to make this too long to start with.

Thanks

Run away, fast!

6 panels suggests approx 1.5kWp system, price should be half or less.

£981 FITs = 4,341 units pa, which would take a very well sited (bottom of Britain), south facing 4kWp system, and even then!!!!

£225 of electric, more like £100 (£70 to £150), £225 would need serious effort, possibly unachievable.

If your really interested, pop on some info, approx location, roof size and orientation, any shading issues during the day etc, and myself or many others will be able to guesstimate potential generation and thereby approx FITs.

Cost wise, impossible to guess at the moment but somewhere around £4.5k to £8k for 1.5kWp to 4Kwp system. You'll see that due to high fixed costs, the price gets proportionately cheaper as the install gets bigger. Several posts on these threads of systems just above or below £7k for 4kWp system size.

Mart.

EricMears

pullman wrote: »

price is £9835 , or £6722 if the company can do before/after pics , board outside for 4 weeks and monitor bills for 6 months (would go for this if doing it).

That paragraph absolutely screams 'high pressure selling" !

The company would obviously gain some benefit from 4 weeks placement of an advertising board but unless you live in Tragfalgar Square the £3000 'fee' is completely stupid. Similarly, monitoring your bills might be useful to you but of very little value to them.

No doubt your salesman had to ring his area manager a couple of times during the visit for permission to offer this wonderful deal and has told you that it will lapse if you don't accept promptly ?

I agree with Martyn's numbers and think that if you ask for a few more quotes you'll find a far better deal.

To offer a £1200 return in the first year and tell you that it's going to be worth >£40k over 25 years obviously implies reliance upon an assumed rate of inflation and unless they've got a really good crystal ball (better than HM Treasury's ! ) they can't possibly have any idea what figure would be appropriate.

pullman

Thanks for the replies - it did seem somewhat optimistic !

Location is North Leeds , roof orientation is South West and I reckon size wise probably 7m x 7m , at probably 45 degree pitch , no shading issues during the day - the words used were 'ideal'.

The assesor (salesman) didn't specifically come across as 'high pressure' but the discount offer was explained as 'we offer this to 10 houses in a new area and there are 2 places left' - need to answer by tomorrow ! and as I have had time to think about I just felt it didn't 'seem right'.

I've also seen that the 21p FIT is only for certain bands of EPC , this wasn't explained and I am wondering what happens if you sign up and then find you're no in a high enough band ?

Martyn1981

EricMears wrote: »

That paragraph absolutely screams 'high pressure selling" !

Definitely.

Hi Eric, had a fun phonecall on Thursday from some PV company.

Nice lad sounded about 18 to 22, talked fast so I couldn't shut him down immediately, and after a few statements I decided to let him run a bit further to see just what bull these people are selling.

Script included, 2kW systems of 6 to 8 panels, costing £7k to £9k with payback of 5 to 7 years!

When I asked how a 2kW system could possibly pay back £7k in 5 years (handy calculator said £384 plus leccy savings pa) he said it would depend on the system size, as 8 panels would be better. I said that 2kW is 2kw is 2kW, but he insisted that 8 panels was better than 6, then explained that they were 2kW EACH.

The conversation rapidly went downhill from there when he said I was confusing him by giving so many numbers, and he wasn't an expert. I said I was only repeating the numbers he'd given me, and if he was claiming specific repayment times then he should be at least a little better informed, than just reading a script.

Sad how every industry seems to have to go through this nonsense. I also note that after a break of approx 6 months I'm know getting all the insulation cold calls (cold calls - is that ironic?) again, must have had 200 over the last 4 or 5 years, despite being on the TPS register.

Rant over, hopefully!

Mart.

EricMears

pullman wrote: »

Location is North Leeds , roof orientation is South West and I reckon size wise probably 7m x 7m , at probably 45 degree pitch , no shading issues during the day - the words used were 'ideal'.

I've also seen that the 21p FIT is only for certain bands of EPC , this wasn't explained and I am wondering what happens if you sign up and then find you're no in a high enough band ?

My panels are 1.665m x 0.991m

If you used the whole 7m in both directions you'd just fit in 4 one way by 7 the other - i.e. 28 panels. or 7Kw

Of course you'd want to leave some space (e.g. access to ridge tiles) but should still manage a lot more than 6 panels !

If you don't qualify for the EPC band, price drops to (I think) 9p/KWh. A reputable installer would advise you to get the assessment first (or even do it for you); others might laugh at you !

Martyn1981

pullman wrote: »

Thanks for the replies - it did seem somewhat optimistic !

Location is North Leeds , roof orientation is South West and I reckon size wise probably 7m x 7m , at probably 45 degree pitch , no shading issues during the day - the words used were 'ideal'.

The assesor (salesman) didn't specifically come across as 'high pressure' but the discount offer was explained as 'we offer this to 10 houses in a new area and there are 2 places left' - need to answer by tomorrow ! and as I have had time to think about I just felt it didn't 'seem right'.

I've also seen that the 21p FIT is only for certain bands of EPC , this wasn't explained and I am wondering what happens if you sign up and then find you're no in a high enough band ?

Hiya again, if your roof is that big, then 4kWp should fit. Running your details through PVGIS:

http://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/pvgis/apps4/pvest.php#

gives about 2,950 (classic) to 3,150 (climate).

so in pound note terms that's approx:
FIT 3,000 * 21p = £630
Export 1,500 * 3.2p = £48
leccy savings (£70 to £150?) = £100

Total = £778

Remember these are only good guesses, not guaranteed.

If the install cost £8k or less (£7k or less would be nice!), then an interesting return to consider.

EPC, if you don't get a D AFTER PV then you get a much lower FIT rate, I can check but I think it's 9p or similar.

If there are any similar houses nearby for sale, pop into the estate agents and have a look at the brochures, these should have the EPC results printed on them. Good starting point. If you've already got loft and cavity wall insulation and low energy bulbs, plus a modernish boiler then you should be ok. If not, then why not!

Have fun.

Mart.

pullman

Martyn

Thanks very much for your reply , and the figures in it. They suggest more like 10 years to get the capital back (the quote I had says 5.5 years) - there's every chance we could have downsized within 10 years and i'm not sure whether you get the captial outlay back on sale price ......

The figure I found on the web for FIT below band D was 9p which really makes the figures 'not stack up' - a house for sale a few doors away is quoted as band E , with potential only to get further in Band E (according to the sales details) , so that gives me concern that ours would be something similar. (got loft inuslation , modern boiler , some energy saving bulbs but no cavity walls to get insulation in).


I think all things considered at the moment it's not for me , so thanks for the help to all that replied - I may spend some time getting some more quotes and doing some more detailed investigation , but the replies today were invaluable in stopping me making a costly mistake

EricMears

pullman wrote: »

a house for sale a few doors away is quoted as band E , with potential only to get further in Band E (according to the sales details) , so that gives me concern that ours would be something similar. (got loft inuslation , modern boiler , some energy saving bulbs but no cavity walls to get insulation in).

Adding SPs might of itself improve a house's rating.

'Some energy saving bulbs' may be more than your neighbours have and might perhaps be improvable too.

Similarly, your loft insulatiion may be better than theirs and it could also help to add even more.

Even the lack of cavity walls isn't the end of the world - you might consider adding an external 'cladding'.

I would hope that if you were selling a house with a guaranteed income stream it would be worth more than one without but I don't think enough similar sales have taken place to be sure of that. We're not considering selling ours but if we were and a potential purchaser rubbished the benefit, I'd probably suggest letting him have the free electricity but we'd keep the FIT payments.

EricMears

Martyn1981 wrote: »

I also note that after a break of approx 6 months I'm know getting all the insulation cold calls (cold calls - is that ironic?) again, must have had 200 over the last 4 or 5 years, despite being on the TPS register.

Mart.

You probably knew anyway, but in case not (or for other readers' benefit) TPS registration lasts for only one year and you need to re-register annually. How stupid is that ? I can't imagine anyone making the effort to register who might decide they ought to de-register after the first year !

Also, TPS registration doesn't protect you from overseas callers and an awful of of apparently well spoken Brits are calling from the Indian subcontinent.

Not had any solar panel calls yet but must have several a week where caller 'knows' I have PPI payments to reclaim (in fact I was always in the position where I'd have been slightly better off than usual if sick and in line for a large redundancy payment if sacked). It's quite amusing letting them rattle on before pricking the bubble !:rotfl:

ctdctd

EricMears wrote: »

You probably knew anyway, but in case not (or for other readers' benefit) TPS registration lasts for only one year and you need to re-register annually.

Not so for a normal residential customer - from the TPS site

"
Do you need to renew your registration with the Telephone Preference Service (TPS)?
If you have registered a residential number or a number belonging to a sole trader or (except in Scotland) partnership, you do not need to renew."

http://www.mpsonline.org.uk/tps/contactfaq.php