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Angela Merkel interfering in greek democracy
Comments
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/may/18/eurozone-crisis-stock-markets-greece-spain
Says it all really about the contempt for democracy shown by the EU zealots.
As in "Row after Angela Merkel 'suggests Greece holds euro referendum'". Quite a few people here on MSE have made a few 'suggestions' as to what Greece might or might not want to do. I wouldn't consider that to be 'interfering in Greek democracy'; on the contrary I'd regard it as being the exercise of free speech, otherwise known as one of those rights generally regarded as intrinsic to the concept of democracy. (Or something along those lines.)
Besides, isn't there some old adage about people who pay pipers deciding on what tunes get played?0 -
I think the dynamics have changed on this one, the subtext of the election is 'do you wish to remain in the Euro'? If yes back a pro Euro candidate? What has complicated it is the anti austerity candidate looking at the current poll (on the Euro) and now stating that he wants to stay in the Euro
An anti-austerity, pro-Euro position would be an interesting one. Effectively that would be a desire to return the budget to being even as well as returning the trade position to zero too.
It would be a very uncomfortable year (give or take) while people got used to the new normal.
You can look to Iceland to see what happens: there were few nappies in the supermarkets and pharmaceuticals were hard to get as importing was hard. Now things have settled down and Iceland seems to be doing well economically.
I think it's odds on that Greece will stay in the Euro. Time will tell of course.0 -
An anti-austerity, pro-Euro position would be an interesting one. Effectively that would be a desire to return the budget to being even as well as returning the trade position to zero too.
How could they possibly default and stay with in the Euro?
Surely it would trigger an enormous raft of bankruptcies (i.e. the entire Greek banking system, wiping out all personal savings).0 -
How could they possibly default and stay with in the Euro?
Surely it would trigger an enormous raft of bankruptcies (i.e. the entire Greek banking system, wiping out all personal savings).
That's part of what makes this such a bonkers and hard to read situation. You have the political environment, the economic environment and the will of the people in both the "donor" and "dependent" (for want of better expressions) nations. Sometimes all three are pointing in different directions.Please stay safe in the sun and learn the A-E of melanoma: A = asymmetry, B = irregular borders, C= different colours, D= diameter, larger than 6mm, E = evolving, is your mole changing? Most moles are not cancerous, any doubts, please check next time you visit your GP.
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How could they possibly default and stay with in the Euro?
Surely it would trigger an enormous raft of bankruptcies (i.e. the entire Greek banking system, wiping out all personal savings).
They already persuaded creditors to take a partial haircut, all they need to do is persuade creditors that it's better to receive 25 cents on the euro than to be paid in new drachma, or not be paid at all. If Greece is going to stay in the euro then my view is that either someone else will have to pay off its debts for it (no prizes for guessing who) or there will have to be a staged series of haircuts on its outstanding debt over the course of the next few years.H0 -
vivatifosi wrote: »That's part of what makes this such a bonkers and hard to read situation. You have the political environment, the economic environment and the will of the people in both the "donor" and "dependent" (for want of better expressions) nations. Sometimes all three are pointing in different directions.
I have a feeling that the notion that Greece can default and stay in the Euro is simply another socialist who doesn't have a clue about the intertwined nature of sovereign debt, banks & personal savings.0 -
How could they possibly default and stay with in the Euro?
Surely it would trigger an enormous raft of bankruptcies (i.e. the entire Greek banking system, wiping out all personal savings).
Well they can't be kicked out of the Euro as there is no mechanism to do that.
It would be very interesting if the Greeks simply said, "f.. you, we ain't paying". AIUI, the ECB would be insolvent at that point unless it was recapitalised.0 -
chewmylegoff wrote: »If Greece is going to stay in the euro then my view is that either someone else will have to pay off its debts for it (no prizes for guessing who) or there will have to be a staged series of haircuts on its outstanding debt over the course of the next few years.H
Akin to parachute payments in for falling from the Premiership,.
Hasn't each haircut also had an equal opposite underwriting by the "Governments" of the creditor accepting the haircuts so saving them from falling over?
Why do they go through the charade, cut out the middleman and not write if off direct, as you say over a period."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
Well they can't be kicked out of the Euro as there is no mechanism to do that.
It would be very interesting if the Greeks simply said, "f.. you, we ain't paying". AIUI, the ECB would be insolvent at that point unless it was recapitalised.
Interesting indeed. Not to mention the entire Greek banking system.0 -
But that's pretty much how it's got to be, for the euro to survive.Economies outside Greece cannot be expected to support that country ad infinitum
The trick is to forget the national boundaries and think in terms of a European economy.
Question is, how many eurozone countries will be progressively reduced to cardboard boxes and soup kitchens before Frankfurt figures this out."It will take, five, 10, 15 years to get back to where we need to be. But it's no longer the individual banks that are in the wrong, it's the banking industry as a whole." - Steven Cooper, head of personal and business banking at Barclays, talking to Martin Lewis0
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