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MSE News: 3.5m to get tax refunds but 1.6m to be asked for more

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MSE News: 3.5m to get tax refunds but 1.6m to be asked for more

edited 30 November -1 at 1:00AM in Cutting Tax
16 replies 2.8K views
Former_MSE_HelenFormer_MSE_Helen
2.4K posts
edited 30 November -1 at 1:00AM in Cutting Tax
This is the discussion thread for the following MSE News Story:

"3.5m taxpayers will get refunds averaging £380 FROM next week, while another 1.6m will be asked to repay a typical £540 ..."
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  • edited 11 May 2012 at 9:29PM
    Stephen_LeakStephen_Leak
    8.8K posts
    edited 11 May 2012 at 9:29PM
    Are the HMRC actually able to get anything right? And how are we to know that the "correct" figures are any less incorrect?

    What with today's revelations of corruption, it's time to replace this national scandal of an organisation with two new ones, for income tax and VAT, who can do their jobs properly.
    The acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in my life. :)
  • chrismac1chrismac1 Forumite
    2.6K posts
    "We are improving the PAYE system further, which will make it easier for employers and pension providers to administer as they will tell HMRC about PAYE payments at the time they are made – as opposed to only at the end of the year – reducing the need for corrective actions at a later stage."

    This is utter tosh. They can't cope with the volume of data from employers once per year, their whole system falls apart for weeks. So what on earth makes them arrogant enough to think they can cope with it every month?

    Don't just take my word for it. The proportion of accountants and book-keepers who think HMRC can make this work is a VERY small minorty, go to any website such as accountingweb and follow the threads on all the ways HMRC is likely to muck this up.

    You ain't seen nothing yet! The annual tax reconciliation shambles will simply become a monthly tax reconciliation shambles with 12 times the volume of data for HMRC to (utterly fail to) cope with.
    Hideous Muddles from Right Charlies
  • MikeyorksMikeyorks Forumite
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    I'm curious as to how these precise figures in the News item emerge - when taking into account that employers still have 8 days (to 19th May) to submit the pay and tax data for their employees.
    Obviously someone has a pretty impressive crystal ball - or not.
    If you want to test the depth of the water .........don't use both feet !
  • MikeyorksMikeyorks Forumite
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    chrismac1 wrote: »
    This is utter tosh. They can't cope with the volume of data from employers once per year,

    So how is it they (allegedly) consider they can move into the annual reconciliation the minute the window has closed for employer submissions?
    If you want to test the depth of the water .........don't use both feet !
  • chrismac1chrismac1 Forumite
    2.6K posts
    They paper over the cracks. They need to take the whole UK tax database down for 5 full days - name one other business in the country still stuck in the 1970s-style "take the whole thing down for days" mentality.

    Then when it comes back up submissions go AWOL for days. next we move into the so-called reconciliation which is nothing more than just spewing out data with no sense-checking, hence the all too common error where a guy who has changed jobs on a £25k salary gets reconciled at £50k because the idiots can't progamme the system to flag up stuff like this as an exception, they just spew it out.

    And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
    Hideous Muddles from Right Charlies
  • MikeyorksMikeyorks Forumite
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    chrismac1 wrote: »
    They paper over the cracks. They need to take the whole UK tax database down for 5 full days - name one other business in the country still stuck in the 1970s-style "take the whole thing down for days" mentality.

    You ramble. What has that to do with the annual submission of P14s that you initially whinged about?

    The break to change over the tax year is much earlier. And is more to do with archiving (35M ?) old records and then doing database integrity checking as a result of the disturbance, than anything else.

    But then - with 100 clients? ...... I don't suppose managing the largest and most complex databases in the UK comes within your ambit? Only within your usual sniping range.
    If you want to test the depth of the water .........don't use both feet !
  • chrismac1chrismac1 Forumite
    2.6K posts
    Before setting up in practice, I ran the finances of a business with £80m sales and did numerous database cutover activites, including what at the time - 2006 - was the largest Sage implentation in the UK. Note Sage would definitely not have been my choice, but that's another story.

    In any of these data migration exercises, if we as the finance team had even suggested running the databases or the cutover exercise the way HMRC runs theirs TWICE A YEAR we'd all have been sacked - or as a minimum in the process.

    The very notion that a modern business can in effect run without any information for 5 working days twice per year - and then run rubbish for a few days when it comes back up - is bonkers. Ask any poster on this site how they'd feel if their bank decided to do this.

    There is a totally different mindset within HMRC from top to bottom. A mindset last seen in most of the UK's businesses when Vicky1 was celebrating her Golden Jubilee, not QE2.
    Hideous Muddles from Right Charlies
  • 50Twuncle50Twuncle Forumite
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    HMRC are one big joke - they gave me back over £8k in overpaid income tax 2 years ago and last year - they overtaxed me again (blaming DWP this time !!)
    I am on self assessment this year - hopefully I won't make such schoolboy errors !!
    Things may (or may not) get better
  • TM1976TM1976 Forumite
    717 posts
    The reason this happens is because it's not possible to say for sure how much tax someone should have paid until the tax year has finished. This has to happen every year, the fact that it does happen just shows that HMR&C is doing what they are supposed to do.

    I deal with HMR&C a lot and I have a lot of gripes about the way they do things but this isn't an error it's just a part of the process. Beats me why MSE constantly try to knock HMR&C on this issue.
  • MikeyorksMikeyorks Forumite
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    21Twinkle wrote: »
    I am on self assessment this year - hopefully I won't make such schoolboy errors !!

    But if you're incapable of ensuring your Code numbers(s) are correct and married to the right income streams ........ why will you make a better fist of SA?
    If you want to test the depth of the water .........don't use both feet !
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