should i sack him!!

DVardysShadow

donnajunkie wrote: »

some of your issues are over the top and some are justified in my opinion.
1. turned up to work with hang over twice. get over it is what i say. did it affect his performance in any major way? if yes then maybe that would justify having a word. if it happens more regularly and affects performance then that could justify having a stern word.
2. refuses to work saturdays? well tough employees should be able to refuse overtime without consequence. the reason why is irrelevant. although he sounds a bit daft by saying its because he wants to play on his playstation.
3. always on mobile phone while working. this deserves a serious talking to. if it continues then follow the standard warning procedures. you know verbal warning, written warning etc.
4. lost an expensive drill. this really depends on how it happened regarding what action to take. use your common sense with this one.

Yes, it is right to divide this up into the issues.

I disagree with you on 1 - I think on the first occurrence, this should have been addressed immediately by an informal non recorded verbal warning that the next time it would be dealt with more formally.

On 2, I agree with you on the assumption that the contract is for Mon-Fri. I accept KiKi's point that there is no right to any particular times off, but if the contract was Mon - Fri, he has the right to do Playstation without criticism. If this is not acceptable for the business, then he should perhaps be given generous notice at the earliest point in such a way that the business accepts that it was at fault for not being upfront about expectations

warehouse

Someone is being way too soft on this young person. If he turns up hungover then it should be bye bye off you go home and no pay for the day. If he's playing with the phone then tell him straight, "turn the bl**dy thing off".

You're treating him with kid gloves and he's taking full advantage. Man up and show him who's boss, problem sorted.

MissSarah1972

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

You can only do that if it's written into his contract, and there are limitations.

Absolutely agree with this: you can't just sack someone these days, there are processes to follow!

Stan here makes excellent points as well.

Surely you can sack them for gross misconduct right away.

Savvy_Sue

MissSarah1972 wrote: »

Surely you can sack them for gross misconduct right away.

You'd need, I think, to have a clear disciplinary and grievance policy, in writing, to be sure that even a dismissal for gross misconduct wasn't going to land you in difficulties. And you don't just say "that's it, you're fired, this is the 3rd time you've come in late / hungover, and there was that drill you lost."

If it is a proper apprenticeship contract, then there should be backup from the training provider to help with making improvements, and I'd make the most of it!

MissSarah1972

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

You'd need, I think, to have a clear disciplinary and grievance policy, in writing, to be sure that even a dismissal for gross misconduct wasn't going to land you in difficulties. And you don't just say "that's it, you're fired, this is the 3rd time you've come in late / hungover, and there was that drill you lost."

If it is a proper apprenticeship contract, then there should be backup from the training provider to help with making improvements, and I'd make the most of it!

All companies should have a policy in writing but the list for gross missconduct is normally determined by the company however they see fit. Of course they can just issue a final warning I am sure.

Savvy_Sue

MissSarah1972 wrote: »

All companies should have a policy in writing but the list for gross missconduct is normally determined by the company however they see fit. Of course they can just issue a final warning I am sure.

I could be wrong, but the fact that the OP felt they had to ask the question here and made no reference to policies makes me think that this employer has none in place.

It's often the case that small family run firms grow organically, more or less informally. Auntie Flo helps out on Fridays if there's a rush job, cousin Mike will do the odd Saturday to help out etc. No-one counts how many days' holiday they take, no-one expects to be paid for overtime, everyone works hard and no-one messes about.

Then the day comes when the first 'proper' employee arrives, and the structures just aren't there.

Actually, I'll revise my previous answer. Of course the OP can 'just sack him', but the mess which follows may be worse than the current situation. Do it properly: tell staff what's acceptable in terms of using their personal phones while at work, tell staff what's expected in terms of Saturday working, tell staff what the consequences of arriving at work while hungover are. You might think it shouldn't have to be spelled out, but it does! Especially for those making the transition from education to work.

ayrforce1

If this apprenticeship is registered with the JIB then it will be covered by the working rule agreement. This agreement includes behaviour clauses, inability due to drink or drugs, and various other clauses. Normally the first 6 months of an apprenticeship would be probationary. I will assume that the said apprentice was supervised when the said item was lost. Can it not be traced back to last point of use, as I know from experience that things can be left behind.
I presume that the apprentice has some form of written details of employment, if not an apprenticeship agreement.
I recall that , when our company last trained an apprentice, there were visits , on the job from the apprenticeship scheme, and both the company and apprentice were able to give their opinion on how things were progressing.
Having said that I fully understand your situation. I am an employee and have to put up with my employers son, now many years qualified, he often smells of drink in the mornings, has a habit of taking days off, looks after nothing,but his wage packet, and to top it all his work is shoddy. His attitude is to say the least poor but I`ll be the one made redundant first.

sho_me_da_money

In 2 words - Fire Him.

Turning up smelling of booze is enough. End of.

donnajunkie

KiKi wrote: »

The OP doesn't say that Saturdays are overtime.

Like it or not, there is no 'right' to weekends off in law. As long as the hours don't breach statutory requirements, he can be expected to work any day that meets the needs of the business.

yes this is true employers can pretty much get away with whatever they like. i am not going to advise someone that it is right to sack someone just because they dont want to do overtime. especially an apprentice.
ps saturdays are bound to be overtime. refusing to do your normal hours would be instant dismissal.

donnajunkie

DVardysShadow wrote: »

I disagree with you on 1 - I think on the first occurrence, this should have been addressed immediately by an informal non recorded verbal warning that the next time it would be dealt with more formally.

i think people have one too many and turning up for work with a hang over is fairly common place. it is only serious if it regularly impacts on their performance at work. or if they have to meet clients or deal with the general public. turning up hung over a couple of times isnt really grounds for any serious action in my opinion.