Locked out of the property market. Generation X and Y's Dreams stymied.

Hello123_2

I'm sick to death of reading about how people in their 20s/30s can't afford a house.

THEY CAN.

But in order to do so they need to cut back in other areas of their life...

eg holidays, cars on finance, going out, drinking, smoking, eating out/take aways, designer clothes, fancy mobiles etc. LUXUIRES.

For instance my niece and her partner are in their 20s. They both said they would never own a house although they work full time and are on very low wages (think minimum wage).

But after an explanation of how people managed back in the day they learnt to cut back on all the luxuries in life and with that money they saved it.

Examples of stuff they did to cut back:
- Bits at the weekend to to make extra money, eg car boots & dog walking.
- Only went out once a month
- 'free things' like hanging out with friends in the park with a picnic!
- Holding 'movie nights' - they supplied the film, friends took popcorn & wine!
- Gave up smoking

By cutting back they saved £8000 over 2 years.

They then went to a local highstreet bank and got a mortgage in principle for £80k. They viewed some real ***holes but in the end made an offer on a house in a not very nice area for £72k.

They now live there and there attitude towards money/finances/priorities is so different to 3 years ago!

The house they live in is tiny - 2 rooms downstairs, and 2 upstairs with a small bathroom. No garden and no parking. And needs a little updating. But they are on the property ladder and own a house! these kids are on minimum wage so how people on higher salaries say they can't afford it I will never understand.

Maybe they just can't afford the house they WANT? as opposed to starting at the bottom and moving up over time?

Loughton_Monkey

Generation Loughton Monkey were buying houses in 1973, when Nationwide tells us they were about £9,000 - up around 30%/40% from 1972.

Generation Loughton Monkey was earning a 'new graduate' salary at the time, in the order of £1,350. Reasonable for a 22 year old but a salary easily earned by non-graduates who had been working for 4 or 5 years.

So faced with average house price some 6 to 7 times income, generation Loughton Monkey had two choices:

1. To sit down and gripe. Moan about it. Write to the MP complaining about being 'locked out of the housing market for ever'. Rent somewhere, and watch prices go up faster than salary - forever moaning more loudly.......

2. Recognise the obvious, and discover that houses were available at far less than average. Sh1tholes they may be, but it gets you on the ladder, replaces rent with mortgage payments, and aspire, eventually, to move up to something a little bit more 'average'.

Generation Loughton Monkey probably waited about 10 years before being able to buy a first car. Even waited over 10 years before buying a new settee or washing machine rather than second hand. But Generation Loughton Monkey had a fine sense of priorities......

Generation Loughton Monkey, therefore, has not a single ounce of sympathy for generations X or Y or any other for that matter. They are are not 'victims' of anything other than their own unrealistic expectations, misguided priorities, and economic naivety.

The "want it now" society definitely gets.

It gets what it deserves.

Graham_Devon

It's interesting you talk about getting a second hand settee.

I looked at buying second hand (I inherited one with the house, but was disgustingly filthy). I couldn't. There are no decent secondhand sofa's. I defy you to find one that doesn't cost nearly as much as popping down to DFS, having a look out the back and picking one up for 200 quid.

Lots of things change over time, and unfortunately (I honestly think this is a real shame), DECENT second hand goods are difficult to source. Likely due to the fact that first hand decent goods are difficult to source!!

Everything changes over time, yet we all feel people should do what we did. My dad stated not long back young people were greedy....he used to get the train the few miles to work and back. The trainline exists, but no trains run on it any longer, which is a bit of a problem for the younger people he expects to use the same train as he did. It's funny how we build up a sense of the right way to do things, and this never leaves us, even as things change.

He sits there suggesting he didn't have all these TV services in his day, while flicking through his virgin media box. Of course, it wasn't available then, so he didn't have it. Doesn't stop him having it now though, yet others are wrong if they do!

Hello123_2

Graham_Devon wrote: »

It's interesting you talk about getting a second hand settee.

I looked at buying second hand (I inherited one with the house, but was disgustingly filthy). I couldn't. There are no decent secondhand sofa's. I defy you to find one that doesn't cost nearly as much as popping down to DFS, having a look out the back and picking one up for 200 quid.

Found this in about 30 seconds:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-Seat-Leather-Sofa-Settee-Brown-Fire-Retardant-Label-/251052470565?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Other_Sofas&hash=item3a73e4b125

Tonnes on ebay for under £50 - let alone £200

wotsthat

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Everything changes over time, yet we all feel people should do what we did. My dad stated not long back young people were greedy....he used to get the train the few miles to work and back. The trainline exists, but no trains run on it any longer, which is a bit of a problem for the younger people he expects to use the same train as he did. It's funny how we build up a sense of the right way to do things, and this never leaves us, even as things change.

Well I'm going to stick up for your dad here Graham. I don't think he really expects people to catch a train that doesn't run anymore.

I think you've misunderstood and he's talking about attitudes. I suspect that he meant that young people want things on a plate and are unwilling to 'put themselves out'. I don't blame them because they've grown up during a period enjoying the best standards of living ever experienced by the British.

Obviously I'm sympathetic as standards of living have fallen all the way back to the grim old days of late 2006.

MPD

I was born in 1975 so pretty much Gen X by all definitions quoted.

I bought in 1998 (saving like mad but with help from the Halifax demutualising) while all my friends were spending all their money and then some on drink, clothes, cars and gadgets. Most of them are still renting.

It really was a question of priorities back then.

ruggedtoast

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Ummm, unless you've altered my birth certificate while I wasn't looking, that's not the case.

I'm barely into my 40's, not well into them.

And I'm around a third of the way through Gen X.

If you want to argue that the very tail end of the generation had fewer opportunities, then fair enough I'll agree with you.

But the vast majority of the generation had one or more of the opportunities I outlined.



Fixed that for you, so yes.

Virtually everyone I know bought a house as young as they could.

It was their top priority when leaving education.

A 38 year old of today (average FTB age according to some) is only 3 years younger than me, and I really do have to ask !!!!!! they were thinking failing to buy a house through the decade and a half of opportunities to do so outlined in my earlier post.

Yes of course virtually everyone you knew bought a house, because I imagine virtually everyone you knew were comfortably off and middle class.

Just like you were when you decided you couldn't afford to buy a house you wanted, weren't prepared to lower yourself to somewhere you could afford, and then tapped your parents up for the extra cash rather than waiting and saving.

This is the thing you don't seem to have any comprehension of Hamish. Most people don't go to public school. Most people can't ask their parents for thousands of pounds to add to their house deposit.

For most people, buying a house is the single largest and most risky loan they will take out.

Most people who lose their job and can't pay the mortgage have to call the mortgage company and find out how long they have until they are repossessed and their children made homeless, rather than calling their parents for a bailout.

Most people because of this element of risk want to make absolutely sure they are making the right decision on the right place in the right area. Believe it or not, some people actually take several years looking for the right home, rather than an investment that has no risk because your family will bail you out if it goes wrong.

These several years between 2002 and 2005 were the difference between being able to afford somewhere, and never having any chance to for many people.

If you hadn't been able to rely on your parents for a handout you would have done what everyone else did, waited and rented while you tried to save more money for a place you wanted to live in.

I am genuinely intrigued as to why you seem unable to understand this.

Graham_Devon

Hello123 wrote: »

Found this in about 30 seconds:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-Seat-Leather-Sofa-Settee-Brown-Fire-Retardant-Label-/251052470565?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Other_Sofas&hash=item3a73e4b125

Tonnes on ebay for under £50 - let alone £200

Would you buy many of them?

I think the over running point, is those who have, feel those who don't have are all wasting money. That's all it boils down to really. No matter what the evidence presented, no ones going to change their mindsets, as we have seen from the threads on this subject before now.

This is evidence by the person who could have bought a property on their own, but instead used cash from their parents, as the other properties weren't as nice. Yet "they will do" for others.

Graham_Devon

wotsthat wrote: »

Well I'm going to stick up for your dad here Graham. I don't think he really expects people to catch a train that doesn't run anymore.

I think you've misunderstood and he's talking about attitudes. I suspect that he meant that young people want things on a plate and are unwilling to 'put themselves out'. I don't blame them because they've grown up during a period enjoying the best standards of living ever experienced by the British.

Obviously I'm sympathetic as standards of living have fallen all the way back to the grim old days of late 2006.

Very nice try.

However, the point is, he see's people as greedy, because they have a car, when he didn't. He had to catch the train. Theres nothing more to it. My dad is one of the most generous people I know, but you can't change his mindset.

If he had to catch the train when he was younger, but someone else at his age back then now has a car, they are greedy and shouldn't be able to afford other stuff. He couldn't, so they shouldn't.

Find as many excuses as you like. Every generation is jealous in some ways of another. Works all ways.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Graham_Devon wrote: »

It is America based, but you are always outside of the mould Hamish, on everything.

American Gen X is usually considered to be a number of years ahead of UK Gen X, so the first of them would indeed have started to pass peak earning power in the last few years, right in the middle of their "great recession".

AFAIK, it's the case that most people in the UK reach peak earning power between the age of 45-50.

The very first of the UK Gen X (on the earliest possible interpretation of the dates) won't turn 50 until 2013. But the vast majority will be 5-10 years later.

So it's too early to say for the UK as to whether or not Gen X will be significantly impacted or not.