Water bills will have to rise to stop people having baths

kabayiri

RenovationMan wrote: »

There was a documentary on the other night where a bloke mooted using the UKs extensve canal system to move water around in a cost effective manner. I think some derelict canal systems would have to be reinstated, but this has other benefits other than just water management, such as area regeneration.

I'd have to be convinced of this as a viable option.

You may have seen that water flows from the Lakes to Manchester region at about walking pace, taking a day and a half to complete it's journey.

You still have the issue regards getting the water to higher levels of ground. Locks are not geared to do this in any volume. That will still require energy.

grizzly1911

kabayiri wrote: »

I'd have to be convinced of this as a viable option.

You may have seen that water flows from the Lakes to Manchester region at about walking pace, taking a day and a half to complete it's journey.

You still have the issue regards getting the water to higher levels of ground. Locks are not geared to do this in any volume. That will still require energy.

This idea has been flagged before and is probably part of a solution should they ever decide to sort it out rather than price us out.

I understand that the Llangollen canal is already used for this purpose bringing water out of wales?

kabayiri

grizzly1911 wrote: »

This idea has been flagged before and is probably part of a solution should they ever decide to sort it out rather than price us out.
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Ideally, they would put all the options out there for Londoners, all costed on a mid/long-term basis.

Show the desalination vs leak reduction vs water transfer options, and let the London consumer decide.

Isn't that what water privatisation supposed to be about? Giving the consumer a level of choice and control ?

As theRegister article points to, though, I suspect there is more going on behind the scenes, including politicking.

I don't see anything bad in UK engineering expertise being built up in desalination plant technology either. Why can't we be winning business of this sort around the globe, showcasing our own set up to do so.

A._Badger

What is called for, as Lewis Page rightly points out in the article I referred to, is vision and courage - two qualities notably lacking in our age of 'green' misanthropy.

The much-derided Victorians had both qualities in spades, as was shown when Joseph Chamberlian, when mayor of Birmingham, a city faced with water problems of third world proportions, fought to secure an Act of Parliament enabling land to be bought in South Wales and water secured by damming rivers brought to Birmingham to ensure clean drinking and proper sewage treatment for the first time.

Much like the South East today, Birmingham's population had grown tremendously, causing a crisis, but it took a politician with a background in engineering to understand that the proper response isn't 'Green' hand-wringing and nonsense about 'cutting down' it is to solve the problem through courage, technology and investment.

Graham_Devon

A._Badger wrote: »

What is called for, as Lewis Page rightly points out in the article I referred to, is vision and courage - two qualities notably lacking in our age of 'green' misanthropy.

The much-deried Vicorians had both qualities in spades, as was shown when Joseph Chamberlian, when mayor of Birmingham, a city faced with water problems of thrid world proportions, fought to secure an Act of Parliament enabling land to be bought in South Wales and water secured by damming rivers brought to Birmingham to ensure clean drinking and proper sewage treatment for the first time.

Much like the South East today, Birmingham's population had grown tremendously, causing a crisis, but it took a politician with a background in engineering to understand that the proper response isn't 'Green' hand-wringing and nonsense about 'cutting down' it is to solve the problem through courage, technology and investment.

Interestingly I watched a programme a while back, which stated the victiorians got so much done simply because politics was behind closed doors.

Nowadays, you have politicians frightened to state the obvious and get things moving as it will be on the 24 hour news, across several channels, across facebook, twitter, instantly on media websites, and polls will be instantaneous.

This simply has politicians, for whom the vote is everything, deciding to do nothing to keep the status quo. It pains me to say it, but NO political party will survive doing the right thing. There are too many alterior interests.

The third runway was used as an example, where technology was used to gather a movement within hours, with the green agenda apposing the runway. Instantly the government were down in the polls.

Politicians simply cannot do or say anything now without derision from the media, no matter who the politician is. We don't help ourselves. A politician can do or say the exact truth or right thing, but straight away, plastered over all this is something he said or did once before, and bang, the idea or truth is drowned out by those on the other side of the political fence.

Therefore, it takes literally years to even get an idea off the ground, let alone actually do it. In the victorian times it just got done. The political fights were kept inside westminster and contained to the papers which were updated every 24 hours...too late in many cases.

Just look what the victorians managed with the rail system....then compare that to high speed rail. The victorians would have been on to constructing it by now.

System

There's no point in charging more if the water isn't metred. That's an incentive to use as much as possible, not economize.

grizzly1911

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Interestingly I watched a programme a while back, which stated the victiorians got so much done simply because politics was behind closed doors.

No doubt true.

In addition the population was smaller and projects added real value to the lives of many quickly and therefore more readily sold/accepted.

Many of the changes today cost a lot more and the incremental change is more limited/focused so less easily sold/accepted.

Using HS2 for example whilst it will bring benefits they are presently being re quantified downwards and for the majority in the country it will be of little use so the cost, which will no doubt quadruple, is much less acceptable and open to scrutiny.

Whilst the third runway has been put down for now there is mounting pressure to reopen the requirement. I wonder why when we told that oil is running out, with demand higher than ever. Wonder how many airships it will handle.

chewmylegoff

RenovationMan wrote: »

Do you realise how much you'd have to invest in these companies to gain back what you lose in increased utility bills?

My water bill seems to be about £300 quid a year, so I guess the answer to that is "not all that much".

thescouselander

PasturesNew wrote: »

Years ago we had a bath on bath night, once a week. And washing was done once a week, you washed things that were dirty, not because you'd worn them once, for 2 hours.

In my day all we had was a sand-scrub with some grit we'd swept up from the back yard - and we thought ourselves lucky. Some people had to have the dirt beaten out of them with half a brick.

lostinrates

We rain water harvest (crude system here before we arrived). It is depressing in the extreme that in the last week or so we have been watering already wet land to stop the pump for this system flooding. With the amount of barn roof space we have the amount of water collected over this wet weather has been astounding. This system now also takes our cleaned grey water from the house. Longerterm this will be recylced back in to the house. We will be able to reuse our water several times before doing what we are doing now with it......watering the garden and just draining away on to land to keep the levels down and from flooding the pump electrics.

Having some control for your own water and waste makes one more conscious of it. For example, one often reads about tenants flushing baby wipes or blockages of pipes caused by tampons. If you pay each time this happens, you make sure you do not do it! (the cavelier attitude taken by some who think its not their problem, not thinking of those who have to sort out our lazy approach) And its not just nuisance blockage, its environmental factors......if you harvest water from our own sewage tretment centre you are not tempted to wash paint brushes in the sink.

Clean water from the tap is a huge luxury, i admit, it is one i am indulgant over, but i do not take it for granted. It is dispiriting so many people do. Its one of the luxuries we have here in uk, something that generally makes this a great place to live, cheap, clean and pretty much always available water.