Restoration of Age related allowances - government petition - all please read

zygurat789

Andy_L wrote: »

Is that not increased by the best of CPI, Wages or 2.5%?

Absolutely that was all it was, this is less than previous governments had pledged, RPI, and this lot had the cheek to claim THEY were giving pensioners their biggest rise ever, which in percentage terms was another lie.

zygurat789

Randvegeta wrote: »

This is ridiculous. Inflation hits everyone, not just pensioners. The only reason why I can see inflation hits any group harder than others is because they buy goods/services that have gone up in prices more than other groups. And if that is the case, then it's not really a necessary expense. If it WAS necessary, than all groups would be hit equally.

There are alternative meats to beef. Chicken is still ridiculously cheap. Go to sainburys and pick up 2.5KG for 4 quid. That's just 1.60GBP per KG. Why do you need beef? If you can't afford to live your extravagant lifestyle within your means, DON'T! Choose a more humble life and appreciate you have food at all!

Heating bills to high? Insulate or get a small house! Eveyone pays for heating, not just pensioners.

What I see is that people are complaining about lower standards of living. EVERYONE must face rising costs and static or even falling income. NOT just pensioners.

The youth are the most vulnerable group in society. Unemployment is highest in the youth. Wages for under 21s are less per hour, meaning they earn LESS for the same work. House prices are unaffordable to most so you can forget the youth ever getting on the property ladder, meanwhile they get no tax breaks and if working full time, no benefits.

So why exactly are should pensioners be given MORE than the youth?

Your first sentence describes the rest of your post perfectly.
You obviously don't understand what an index is for.
The under 21's get, at least £199.20 per week (nearly twice the pension) So pensioners don't get more than youth.
and if they want a job all they have to get a bit of education andc behave reasonably as attested to by various employers' reports but a lot are quite happy on benefits. Youth never get on the property ladder, they have to grow up first and become adult and get tax breaks to.
Give it a try.

zygurat789

Andy_L wrote: »

the inflation that everyone (who buys mince) has to withstand.

ps buy your mince today, its 2 for£7 at the moment

Ah but see post 41, "good quality food" this is 5% fat mince.
And how much was your example last year? 2 for £5 as I recall, still 40 odd % inflation

zygurat789

margaretclare wrote: »

I agree with all of this, but I have been slated by members of my own age-group for saying so and for refusing to sign that petition.

I don't complain about the price of food and I wouldn't eat cheap chicken. I'd rather eat no meat at all, of any kind, rather than seem to be subsidising the way the cheapest chicken meat is raised (see Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall's 'Chicken Out' campaign.) Buying food means making choices. Some people shop purely on choice. Others shop on ethics. We tend to shop on a combination of ethics and good value.

Margaret, true blue through thick and thin, were you born Roberts?

jamesd

zygurat789 wrote: »

The under 21's get, at least £199.20 per week (nearly twice the pension) So pensioners don't get more than youth.

The maximum Jobseeker's Allowance is £56.25 a week for a person under 25. To get that the young person has to prove that they are looking for work.

The "at least" rate for someone under 21 who is working is the first year apprentice rate, £2.60 an hour, £104 a week for 40 hours. There are other rates, 16-17 £3.68, 18-20 4.98 (£199.20 a week) and 21 and over £6.08 (£243.20 a week).

Pensioners do get more than those under 21. They are 21 or over so they get the £243.20 a week minimum wage if they work. That's 22% more than the under 21 before tax and NI. The pensioner doesn't have to pay NI so as well as making more they have less tax to pay on it. That NI benefit applies whatever the pensioner makes from PAYE work, whether they are rich or just normally well off.

But you're missing the point, this isn't really about those who are working. The poorest pensioners are the ones who are on means tested benefits - the equivalent of the £56.25 a week for a person under 25. Removing the age allowance and using the money to fund those who most need it is a good trade. Gradually doing it as the number of retired boomers increases was a nice touch.

margaretclare

zygurat789 wrote: »

Margaret, true blue through thick and thin, were you born Roberts?

No, I was not. And if you want to get political, my colours are red and white. As we say 'these colours don't run'. Blue is nowhere. Red and white, the colours of St George.

I agree with what has been said about the difficulties the younger generation are experiencing. I suppose it is fortunate that all of them, the ones who aren't still at school, are gainfully-employed, and that is by no means the case in all families.

My eldest GD works full-time, lives in a council flat with her dog (she needs him, it's a rough area!) and time after time there has been 'too much month left at the end of the money'. Humiliating for her, I have ended up sending her money for food. Although I'm one of the pensioners you talk so much about, no one has yet been obliged to send me money for food. We're not on any means-tested benefits so, although by no means rich, we're a long way from being poor.

My GS is a graduate and he's just found a job in his field after graduating 3 years ago. He was always a very bright kid, but that doesn't mean he hasn't had 'a few sh***y years' recently, as he puts it.

My youngest GD works part-time because she can't find a full-time job. She'll have been at work from 5 this morning, that's what she does. She'd like to marry her fiance but they have no chance of getting somewhere to live. 20 years ago they'd have been looking to get one foot on the property ladder. Not now. They couldn't possibly afford a mortgage.

Randvegeta

Margaret, if I have said something to you that made you think I was 'attacking' you, this was certainly not my intention. If anything, we are probably on the same (ish) side . I understand your grand children's position. I graduated two years ago and I know many of my fellow graduates are either unemployed or grossly underemployed. I am one of the more lucky ones. I have my own business and it does pretty well given the economic climate. So I can't complain too much about my own circumstances.

@zygurat789

You obviously don't understand what an index is for.
The under 21's get, at least £199.20 per week (nearly twice the pension) So pensioners don't get more than youth.

What a load of bull. £199.20 is laughable! Show me WHERE young people can get so much in benefits? As JamesD has already said, the number is 56.25, almost 1/4 what you stated. To get the 199.20, they have to bee in FULL TIME employment. There is nothing stopping pensioners from working full time, taking in 243.20 /week in ADDITION to their pensions. So tell me how exactly the youth are better off than pensioners?

and if they want a job all they have to get a bit of education andc behave reasonably as attested to by various employers' reports but a lot are quite happy on benefits.

Are you serious? I know plenty of GRADUATES who have not found a job. Or at least a GOOD JOB. I believe I heard on the news that for every graduate position available, there are some 40+ graduates coming out of university. Lack of education seems NOT to be the problem.

Youth never get on the property ladder, they have to grow up first and become adult and get tax breaks to.
Give it a try.

I'll be buying my first house in a few months. Cash, no mortgage. At 23 I think that makes me a youth jumping on the property ladder. Grown up enough for you? OOOH OOOH, what tax breaks can I look forward to? I'de love to know! :-)

samwich1979

What i find funny in my area (and not a well off one at all) is the amount of pensioners shopping for food in M&S!
If they are all so badly off how do they afford to do this? I certainly couldnt.

About paying for utility bills etc when its cold..........what happens to the payment OAP's get every year? my mum puts hers away and it pays for her winter gas and electricity when the bill comes in, do all of them do this? i doubt it.

Pensioners also have it good when applying for benefits, take Housing Benefit for example, i applied last August when on maternity leave not knowing i could have applied in May. I was told i had to have good reason to get this money back dated and my reason was i was told i earnt too much. Not good enough apparently and i had to fight tooth and nail to get what i should have been entitled to. Meanwhile a 60 year old or older in my situation, wanting backdated HB, doesnt have to give a good reason they just get given it!
This really is ageism at its best! Why is an OAP more worthy than a 32 year old struggling to look after her family?

You can moan all you want about tax and food prices rising and how awful it is for OAP's but the fact is as others have said its everyone who is suffering.
Ive not had a pay rise for 2 years but there really isnt much i can do about this i have to get on with it whether my family can cope or not.

So why cant pensioners do this and stop thinking they are owed something just for being old and the fact they have "done their bit for the country"???

margaretclare

I agree with the last poster. We go to Waitrose as well as to Tesco, and a lot of older people are seen in there. Waitrose is also seen as being 'pricey', although we find it's good value. Their fruit and veg are better quality than in Tesco, and, being a bit fussy about what we eat, we like the quality.

Winter fuel payment? Well, I've heard various things. I've heard of someone using it as a deposit on a 'winter sun' holiday. I've heard of it being used for grandchildren's Christmas presents. I've also heard of it being given to charity - AgeUK were advocating this last winter. I've said this kind of thing in another thread on another part of Martin's site and been told 'it's money, it goes into the general 'pot', it doesn't matter what you spend it on'.

Randvegeta, it wasn't you. It tends to be those in my own generation. I've said many times, I feel desperately-sorry for those of the younger generation who can't find a job, or who were misled into thinking 'staying on and going to uni' would absolutely guarantee them a good job. Yes, we worked hard when we were young, but at least there were plenty of jobs to go around. It never occurred to us that there wouldn't be. In fact there were so many jobs going unfilled, this was the start of mass immigration - and let's not even go there. Not sure what 'doing your bit for the country' means. We are not the WWII generation - we were children then.

Randvegeta

Not sure what 'doing your bit for the country' means. We are not the WWII generation - we were children then.

I think what Samwich1979 meant was that you have already live and paid your taxes all your lives, and therefore are now ENTITLED to retire on a nice gilt edged pension.

Personally I am sick of this country's 'entitlement' culture. If I really wanted to, I could apply, and quality for all manor of benefits and become yet another leech on society. The fact that I can get benefits that I don't need is proof that the system is BROKEN. And YES, I could do it LEGALLY and WITHOUT FRAUD.

Anyone who is receiving a state benefit, be it for unemployment or a pension, they should FEEL GRATEFUL to get anything at all, instead of angry that they 'don't get enough'. It is not the fault of the government or society you don't have enough money to live the way you want. And it certainly shouldn't be society's responsibility to provide anything more than what would allow one to survive. You can forget luxury and quality!

Margaret, I understand buying quality. I certainly enjoy it! If you can afford to do so, then do it!

The problem is, if a pensioner was able to buy Waitrose/M&S before, and now must 'downgrade' to Tesco or dare I say it, ASDA, they have NO RIGHT to complain. At least not while working people are forced to shop there.