Landlord info! DESPERATE NEED OF ADVICE!

Mumto3cheekymonkeys

Hi all I am in dire need of some advice. Me and my partner have been very foolish and allowed ourselves to get sucked in by a "poor" family. we have basicly allowed then to rent our house even though they are on HB. The agreement (which has been signed) was no deposit but a months rent in advance, we have not recieved this as HB is paid in arreas. we recieved last months payment (2 days late) and requested it be paid straight into our buisness account next time which was apprently done. Rent was due today and guess what! It hasnt been paid! I am wondering if i could give them a section 21 notice today stating that if the full balance is not cleared within 28 days we will have no option but to continue with the notice?

Please be gentle with my stupidity!

sooz

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3932385

Duplicate thread.

Where you say you have joined a LL association & served him a section 21 already.

Section 21 's don't need extra clauses...ie pay your rent & I'll withdraw it.

Speak to your Ll association.

Do the paperwork properly & correctly.

Wait.

babymoo

Have you requested with your local council that the HB be paid straight into your bank or just with the tenants?

princeofpounds

HB is always paid in arrears, a little research would have flagged up this risk.

Section 21 would only apply at the end of the fixed period. Whilst you can serve one, it wouldn't apply until then (4 months away?).

Section 8 is the one to use for overdue rent. You can serve it when the tenant has 2 payments overdue. That normally means one month and one day after the first of two consecutive missed payments. However, if you go to court and they bring the payments even 1 penny under that you will not succeed. It is also discretionary and the judge may give leeway if the reasons the tenant presents are good.

If you send a notice, don't attach such a 'threat letter'; the notice is either valid or not valid, and if you say 'we will continue with the notice' that raises doubts about whether the notice has been issued or not. If you must, speak to the tenant and tell them that you will go to court unless they pay.

Ask the council to start paying the rent directly to you.

Was there a deposit? Assume it is properly protected?

go_cat

It was 10:07 when you posted this thread and said you hadn't been paid - would it not be fairer to wait until at least 5pm before you go assuming they haven't paid

jjlandlord

princeofpounds wrote: »

HB is always paid in arrears, a little research would have flagged up this risk.

Yes, but that's not the landlord's problem: the tenant is responsible to ensure he is up to date in his rent payments.

princeofpounds wrote: »

Section 8 is the one to use for overdue rent. You can serve it when the tenant has 2 payments overdue. That normally means one month and one day after the first of two consecutive missed payments. However, if you go to court and they bring the payments even 1 penny under that you will not succeed. It is also discretionary and the judge may give leeway if the reasons the tenant presents are good.

Just to clarify: It tenant owes at least 2 month rent then possession is not discretionary, the court must grant it. It becomes discretionary if the due rent in less than 2 months, hence indeed the strategy to pay just enough to fall back below that threshold.
In addition, in order to use this route to get a possession order during a fixed term tenancy, the agreement must allow for it (most templates do).

Werdnal

When exactly did the tenancy start?
Was there a fixed term and if so when did/does thos end?

You can issue an S21, but you will not be able to seek possession on that notice until the fixed term ends.

How many times has rent been late? Are there any other arrears, or has it just been paid a couple days late each time? You can use a section 8 notice if the rent is 2 months owing, but if you are actually getting rent, but just a couple of days late each month, perhaps you are over-reacting a little here. Whilst is it is generally considered that it is down to the tenant to get the rent into your account on the day the rent is due, sometimes a couple of days delay is something you have to put up with! Indeed, if rent is due today - today is not over yet - it could still appear through transfer into your account!

If it doesn't, contact the tenants and remind them that rent was due today, and ask their permission to contact HB and get payments made direct to you, bypassing the tenant altogether. Politely reminding that rent is due is not harrassment - waving a notice infront of their noses and saying pay up or else, can be! If you want them out, you issue notice and follow the correct procedure to gain possession, otherwise tenant can shout "harrassment" and get you in all sort of trouble.

Using a section 8 does not guarantee possession as it is down to the discretion of the judge/court, and tenants only have to pay off an amount of rent to get the arrears below 2 months, and that can invalidate the grounds for the notice.

BitterAndTwisted

LHA/HB is paid to the tenant fortnightly in arrears, so the payments rarely math up with the rent-due dates.

In the thread you started at the weekend you stated that you'd already issued a Section 21 Notice to the tenant as their fixed-term AST had another four months to go. If you don't understand what your options are I suggest you consult the landlords association you claim to be a member of.

DO NOT request from the LA that you are paid the rent directly if you suspect HB/LHA is being claimed by the tenant fraudulently!

Mumto3cheekymonkeys

We handed a section 21 for them to leave at the tenancy end day but I was not sure if we could hand them one for 2 months time. We had requested HB be paid directly to us and were told it would be. I have spoken to HB this morning and they say they have made the payment. I have tried talking to the gentleman however the council see it as they pay the rent so it should be paid and not spent on anything else. BitterAndTwisted I find your tone very patronising and dont appreciate it and I would rather you did not comment as your comments are not strictly true. I have just spoken to my LA and they have informed me of my options and they are in my favour. My tenant is already under investigation for fraud due to calls made by im assuming neighbours and they have informed me that I am still entitled to my HB and it is his responsibility to pay it back.

Mumto3cheekymonkeys

Werdnal wrote: »

When exactly did the tenancy start?
Was there a fixed term and if so when did/does thos end?

You can issue an S21, but you will not be able to seek possession on that notice until the fixed term ends.

How many times has rent been late? Are there any other arrears, or has it just been paid a couple days late each time? You can use a section 8 notice if the rent is 2 months owing, but if you are actually getting rent, but just a couple of days late each month, perhaps you are over-reacting a little here. Whilst is it is generally considered that it is down to the tenant to get the rent into your account on the day the rent is due, sometimes a couple of days delay is something you have to put up with! Indeed, if rent is due today - today is not over yet - it could still appear through transfer into your account!

If it doesn't, contact the tenants and remind them that rent was due today, and ask their permission to contact HB and get payments made direct to you, bypassing the tenant altogether. Politely reminding that rent is due is not harrassment - waving a notice infront of their noses and saying pay up or else, can be! If you want them out, you issue notice and follow the correct procedure to gain possession, otherwise tenant can shout "harrassment" and get you in all sort of trouble.

Using a section 8 does not guarantee possession as it is down to the discretion of the judge/court, and tenants only have to pay off an amount of rent to get the arrears below 2 months, and that can invalidate the grounds for the notice.

Thank you for your advice and you have pretty much said what both the council and LA have said. He is already in 1 months arreas and his rent was actually due last week so this puts him in 2 months of arreas. He really is a pain in the backside. There are a few issues with the property that need addressing and he wont get back to us so we can solve this problems which would be in his best interests, we find this rather annoying.
It would appear that he is working, has property elsewhere and is not infact at the property according to the HB people.
We originally let the property with an agent and they really let us down which is why we decided to do it ourselves but although there is law other landlords tend to have better advice about what is realistic.

Werdnal

If the S21 you issued is ever likely to stand up in court, you must be 100% sure it is correctly issued, and more importantly, you have proof it was correctly served. Handing them a copy gives you no proof that it was ever served properly, and your word against the tenant that he ever received it.

B&T's statement about not getting HB paid direct to you was correct - if it is being claimed fraudulently, and tenant is found out, YOU have to pay it back. Whatever you have been told elsewhere is incorrect. How do you expect to keep money that has been paid in benefits and passed on to you fraudulently? Believe me, it does happen, and they will come after you for the return of the overpayment!

I would issue another S21 now, make sure you do it by the book, correctly completed and post 2 separate copies, from 2 separate post offices, keeping proof of postage from each. DO NOT send recorded delivery, as tenant can refuse to sign for it. First Class normal post is considered served 2 working days after posting. You must ensure you complete the S21 with correct dates - hence reason I asked earlier what date your tenancy started and when fixed term ends.

However, I assume you do know that the S21 does not end the tenancy, or mean that tenant has to leave on the day it expires? If tenant does not leave, you will then need to seek possession through the courts (courts are fussy and if something however minor is incorrect with your notice, then they will throw it out and you start over with 2 months notice again!). Court will grant guaranteed possession on an S21, but it can take another 4-6 weeks to come to court, then you may still have to enforce the eviction using baillifs (another 2-3 weeks on top if you are lucky).

If tenants are seeking to be housed by the council, it is likely they will be told to ingore your S21 and sit tight until you go through the formal eviction, and baillifs are knocking, otherwise they council have no obligation to find them somewhere.

I agree with B&T's suggestion, that if you have joined a LL association, you should really be using that membership to your advantage, as that is what you are paying them for. Have they S21 templates available on their website? Have they a tutorial on how to complete and correctly serve the notice? If they are any good, they should have all this info available as part of your membership, plus legal advice on how to handle just this situation.