An 'Unauthorised Claim' on PayPal. HELP!!!

homie44

Hey guys and girls

I guess I am writing this as a real last resort and seriously hoping someone can pop up as my 'angel in disguise' to help me out with this.

To cut a long story short: I sold a 50" TV on eBay. Listing was for "Local Pick Up Only". The buyer bought it for £550 (using the 'Buy It Now' button). Buyer had perfect (100%) 52 feedbacks.

The buyer sent me a message asking for my number to arrange collection. Spoke on the phone, buyer paid via PayPal, came to collect - deal done. Nice guy, hence I left good feedback as he requested. Immediately after getting paid through PayPal I've transferred the money to my Bank Account.

The next day I get an E-Mail from PayPal regarding an "Unauthorised Claim" against me. Apparently the PayPal account holder from where the money was paid to me is claiming that this was an unauthorised payment. From zero my PayPal balance became -£550 in bold red colour.

I told the whole story to PayPal, times, phone numbers, emails, text messages etc. However, I was told by PayPal that I'm not protected and I'm likely to lose the case. According to them, PayPal doesn't protect 'Local Pick Up' deals. This is an on-going dispute that was opened 10 days ago.

Obviously I still don't understand why it is my problem that someone had his PayPal account hacked. It's either the account holder's fault or PayPal's system. Definitely not my fault as I only sold an item, buyer never complained or said he didn't receive it. The fact is the BUYER paid. Obviously the buyer is a scammer and he paid using someone else's account, but that is not my fault. I'm even thinking it might be his account but he wants to Win-Win using a chargeback.

Now PayPal wants to take back my £550 from my bank account and give it back to the account holder. So I will lose both the TV and the £550. Un!!!!ingbelievable. Apologies.

Now, I'm not willing to give up, accept PayPal decision and lose £550. This is simply unacceptable and I will do anything in my power to stop this from happening. I don't mind getting sued by PayPal if necessary to protect my money. I removed my PayPal Direct Debit from my Bank Account and asked my Bank to decline any future requests from PayPal to set up a new Direct Debit.

HOWEVER, because PayPal's got both my bank details (direct debit use) AND (!) debit card (continuous authority / agreement) hence I have a big problem. According to my bank, I can't stop PayPal from charging me via the debit card if they want to. Even if I don't want them to, the bank can't do anything to stop them. I had to tell the Bank that the FSA (Financial Service Authority) says that I have the right to cancel any continues authority. It's my right. But the Bank says that it's not a continues authority and it's 'an agreement' that can't be cancelled.

Now, I can't close my bank account because I have a dispute. I can't block PayPal from charging me through the debit card. I can't remove my debit card or bank details from PayPal due to the dispute. So basically PayPal can charge me £550 if they wish. They can force me into paying. Yes. I, the bank account holder, can't stop a company from charging me if they have my debit card details. It's ridiculous that I can't protect myself. Already spoke with everyone in the bank, 10 phone calls and no help.

What to do? Do you guys know how I can protect myself? It's obvious I didn't do anything wrong. Why do I have to pay the price? Should I contact the Police? should I let PayPal take the money and then open a dispute against them?

or....is it a lost case from the start?

Thank you,
George

hermum

I am sorry to say that in order to have seller protection you have to post to the address Paypal says it is ok to post to.
For items over £150 you have to prove delivery with an online signature.
Paypal on collection doesn't cover the seller at all.
Unfortunately it is an easy & common scam for the scum who want to steal.
If you refuse to pay Paypal then they do get in the debt collectors etc.
Someone who's been in your position may come along & give you some more helpful advice.

homie44

hermum wrote: »

I am sorry to say that in order to have seller protection you have to post to the address Paypal says it is ok to post to.
For items over £150 you have to prove delivery with an online signature.
Paypal on collection doesn't cover the seller at all.
Unfortunately it is an easy & common scam for the scum who want to steal.
If you refuse to pay Paypal then they do get in the debt collectors etc.
Someone who's been in your position may come along & give you some more helpful advice.

Just like I thought.

What if a PayPal account holder is someone who is not 18 yet? In order to use PayPal you have to be 18 years old. If the registered account is registered on the name of someone who is not 18 yet, will this cause PayPal legal problems in regard to 'debt collectors' or the opposite, the account holder will get into more trouble?

Regards,
George

eBayRipOff

I am sorry to hear about your misfortune. However this problem is simply because you have not READ properly the conditions of Paypal.

I see this happen so much, and I am wondering, if somebody gave you a cheque, would you have given away something like that before it cleared? Probably not, because you would check with your bank for clearing time etc.

You have done a major mistake in this case. Paypal accounts/ eBay accounts get constantly hacked, people purchase item on other peoples accounts, most likely what has happen here. Than the account holder discovers this, and reports unauthorized payment, and basically you get screwed.

But the main reason you got screwed is that you DID NOT READ paypals rules for Seller protection.

I keep repeating this in many posts, some buyers on these forums don't always like it, specially when it comes to giving advice to buyers, as they think it is ok to give one sided advice, depending on who has the problem, so if it is a buyer problem, they will not want to mention what seller has to do, and actually encourage buyers to get an advantage like this, as it gives them more trump cards. This might be ok, when buyers are honest, but in these kind of cases most of them are fraudulent buyers, with hacked accounts.

Although this might sound hash, you did everything wrong in this transaction, you did not follow Paypal's advice to protect yourself.

https://www.paypal-marketing.co.uk/safetyadvice/SellerProtectionOnEbay.htm

I repeat this again and again, follow this word for word, and you are safe, but don't follow it and you loose.

I mean why didn't you tell the guy to bring cash if he wanted to pick up?

This happens again and again and again, advice read policies and take it as an expensive lesson for the future.

Unless you have the details of the guy that picked up, I think it will be impossible to recoup anything, as you don't even know if the guy who picked it up was the actual account holder, in the case the eBay account was hacked.

paulofessex

In respect of the re-occurring debit card payment, this link was posted on the Bank Account Forum. It confirms that banks can and should stop such issues as the law was changed in 2009 but they are still telling customers that they cannot and in fact failing to update their t&c's

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17870704

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01gng5g/Money_Box_28_04_2012/ Radio Programme

homie44

paulofessex wrote: »

In respect of the re-occurring debit card payment, this link was posted on the Bank Account Forum. It confirms that banks can and should stop such issues as the law was changed in 2009 but they are still telling customers that they cannot and in fact failing to update their t&c's

URL

Url Radio Programme

I appreciate your reply. However the bank says its NOT a Continues Authority. What is it then?

P3dro

Only way to cancel it I believe is to cancel the card

Mrs_Arcanum

homie44 wrote: »

I appreciate your reply. However the bank says its NOT a Continues Authority. What is it then?

The new term is "recurring payment". However, you can still cancel this with your bank Linky

vax2002

Somewhere buried is a request details button, IF ANYONE CAN LINK, click this and it will request the buyers details, they might not thought of that, then you have an address to start with and a quick knock on the door may reveal more...

vax2002

Here is an idea, once you have the buyers address, send a co3020 battery via recorded delivery, stating it was forgotten its the part of the remote and thus concludes the sale for the TV.
2 can play at silly sods....

hermum

vax2002 wrote: »

Somewhere buried is a request details button, IF ANYONE CAN LINK, click this and it will request the buyers details, they might not thought of that, then you have an address to start with and a quick knock on the door may reveal more...

As they paid by Paypal., hence the problems the seller will have the address of the Paypal account holder on their email.
I would do a bit of digging, is the address close to you?