Employers can't 'afford' to pay a living wage?

Enterprise_1701C

Oh how I wish it were as simple as the OP seems to think it is.

We tried employing someone - NEVER AGAIN, it is a nightmare of red tape and then you get an employee who thinks you are running the business purely to employ her.

It is not as simple as all that, if it were then the country would be in a better place.

gibson123

Russe11 wrote: »

thats right all the money over the last 15 years has come from productive businesses, do you seriously believe that? Did I say that?

Most of the money created(representation fo debt) has come from land values increases and state borrowing, not productive industry.

If it had come from business via taxation we would not have the current economic mess.

If there are businesses that do not rely on support directly or indirectly(like those who do not have employees that get income from the state) the tax is actually on being productive enterprises then that can only be a good thing. Saying that some where along the line, the flow of money will be stimulated.

Not forgetting that income from working taxation does not even cover the welfare bill in this country.

I am well aware of this, that's why we are in the mess in the first place. We have not had a balanced budget since 1997. However this is nothing to do with businesses, this is to do with the unprecedented government spending in a time of relative prosperity and peace ( we only really borrowed like this to fund wars before the mid 20th century). In fact we were not borrowing to subsidise businesses but to subsidise a huge growth in public spending in ranked order on benefits and pensions, health services, education and defence.

Russe11

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

Oh how I wish it were as simple as the OP seems to think it is.

We tried employing someone - NEVER AGAIN, it is a nightmare of red tape and then you get an employee who thinks you are running the business purely to employ her.

It is not as simple as all that, if it were then the country would be in a better place.

not all business models lend themselves to having employees, when you say red tape, what do exactly mean, if you only have one employee you miss out on a lot of the legislation.

If employees did not have the few rights they do have, then it would just open it up to even more abuse than already exists.

This "red tape" creates a level playing field if you choose to operate your business within the law, for small businesses they don't have to comply with some laws if they are under 5 employees I believe.

Russe11

gibson123 wrote: »

I am well aware of this, that's why we are in the mess in the first place. We have not had a balanced budget since 1997. However this is nothing to do with businesses, this is to do with the unprecedented government spending in a time of relative prosperity and peace ( we only really borrowed like this to fund wars before the mid 20th century). In fact we were not borrowing to subsidise businesses but to subsidise a huge growth in public spending in ranked order on benefits and pensions, health services, education and defence.

When you say spending/borrowing though has been the creation of money that did not previously exsist. Who benefited the most from the spending in these areas? the business owners or the employees?

ILW

Russe11 wrote: »

When you say spending/borrowing though has been the creation of money that did not previously exsist. Who benefited the most from the spending in these areas? the business owners or the employees?

You seem to think everything is slanted towards business owners.

Well the good news is that anybody can become a business owner if they wish.

gibson123

Russe11 wrote: »

When you say spending/borrowing though has been the creation of money that did not previously exsist. Who benefited the most from the spending in these areas? the business owners or the employees?

OK very simply

It is spent on:

Benefits and Pensions

Health Services

Education

Defense

It comes from:

Business Taxes

Individual Taxes

Borrowing

Simples! So the answer is that since it is individuals that ultimately benefit from taxation, it goes to those on benefits, pension, those who are sick and those in education. As it is also individuals who ultimately pay all taxes, it comes from those individuals that create wealth, from those that are employees through PAYE and from those who are employers through business taxes.

So in answer to your question the group that benefits most are neither the employees nor the businesses but those supported taxation.

You do appear very anti-business

Googlewhacker

ILW wrote: »

You seem to think everything is slanted towards business owners.

Well the good news is that anybody can become a business owner if they wish.

Quite, it always amuses me how easy people think employers have it, never mind that alot put their families at risk to run their own business and some do fail unfortunately.

The vast majority of those that moan wouldn't pay say £10 an hour to an employee to start with when its purely running of the start up funds when they can pay NMW...they might once its established but not at the beginning which thus makes them as 'bad' as those they are berating.

Russe11

gibson123 wrote: »

OK very simply

It is spent on:

Benefits and Pensions

Health Services

Education

Defense

It comes from:

Business Taxes

Individual Taxes

Borrowing

Simples! So the answer is that since it is individuals that ultimately benefit from taxation, it goes to those on benefits, pension, those who are sick and those in education. As it is also individuals who ultimately pay all taxes, it comes from those individuals that create wealth, from those that are employees through PAYE and from those who are employers through business taxes.

So in answer to your question the group that benefits most are neither the employees nor the businesses but those supported taxation.

You do appear very anti-business

You have missed out the biggest source of money though, the creation of money that did not previously exsist.

mynameistallulah

ILW wrote: »

You seem to think everything is slanted towards business owners.

Well the good news is that anybody can become a business owner if they wish.

If some of the people on here became business owners then we really would be in a mess!

Russe11

ILW wrote: »

You seem to think everything is slanted towards business owners.

Well the good news is that anybody can become a business owner if they wish.

I never said that, we are talking about the NMW thats it, businesses take risks, they can do well, the can do badly, i'm not against anyone who chooses to become a business owner.

I might be against many larger organisations that get the largest benefits.