The Great Apprentice Scandal

gibson123

Looks like an interesting programme on the Beeb tonight at 8.30. I will watch it with interest.

falko89

gibson123 wrote: »

Looks like an interesting programme on the Beeb tonight at 8.30. I will watch it with interest.

Yes it does look interesting, I've always thought apprenticeships where a waste of time,

gibson123

Not proper apprenticeship surely, you know the ones that are a minimum of 2 years and up to 5 years with proper qualifications and on the job teaching.

I_luv_cats

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17564251

BBC Panorama found that nearly £250m worth of contracts went to large subcontractors in 2011 which have not been inspected by Ofsted.

Some of the companies involved did not even have jobs to offer young people who signed on as apprentices.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17564255

One in 10 apprenticeships created in England last year was at Morrisons supermarkets, the BBC's Panorama programme has learned.
But most of the 52,000 apprentices at the supermarket giant were existing employees who were over 25.

The Business, Innovation and Skills Select Committee has questioned the money being paid to Elmfield Training, the private company that has a £37m government contract to train apprentices and which runs Morrisons' apprenticeship scheme.

Loophole Charlie Mullins, managing director of Pimlico Plumbers in London, said the notion of a true apprenticeship was being put in jeopardy, because of the length of time Morrisons apprentices take to qualify - six months versus three years for an apprentice plumber.
"When supermarkets are just saying we've got apprentice shelf-stackers and apprentice people pushing a broom round, I think all they're really doing is undervaluing the word apprentice.
"They're actually I think just seeing a loophole in the system that they can claim money on it."




Can't we ever get something right!! Set these youngsters up with a proper trade and it will benefit them + the nation!!!!

Somebody did say they are aiming for quantity rather than quality!!!

One bloke (Assessor/trainer?) cried on Panorama because it meant so much to him seeing/hearing about these youngsters being let down.

falko89

I know when I did my apprenticeship all those years ago it was common knowledge that we only got jobs because the employer benefited financially by taking us on, I did NVQ 2&3 and unlike that programme it was properly carried out so can't say much about that side of things, but it was a waste of time in as much as no employer has ever asked have I got my NVQ 2&3 in fact I am usually the only person with them, since I left that first job I have yet to come across another person with these NVQ's in my specific field, they are not needed or valued.

TrickyWicky

So the moral of the story is if you want to make some money jump on the government gravy train providing a service for one of their quick political point scoring agendas

saintjammyswine

Getting harder for these private organisations to do this now, mainly due to the new RTO (register of training organisations) process and the £500k minimum SFA contract rooting out a lot of the smaller private providers. They are going through organisations like FE Colleges now (who have stricter controls and Ofsted inspections) to get their funding. This is reducing though as the rules on subcontracting of provision get tighter. The story is an indication of what has happened in the past (recent past I concede) and things have alrady changed because of it.

jfh7gwa

It must be so disheartening if you've obtained/are working towards a real apprenticeship (and I'm talking aboue 2 - 5 years of effort in a well-recognised role such as plumbing, electrical work or catering, say) and then they go and water down these perfectly valid routes for skilling up!

This guy from the linked article sums it up really:

Charlie Mullins, managing director of Pimlico Plumbers in London, said the notion of a true apprenticeship was being put in jeopardy, because of the length of time Morrisons apprentices take to qualify - six months versus three years for an apprentice plumber.
"When supermarkets are just saying we've got apprentice shelf-stackers and apprentice people pushing a broom round, I think all they're really doing is undervaluing the word apprentice.
"They're actually I think just seeing a loophole in the system that they can claim money on it."

It seems like a bit of a kick in the teeth for people working towards REAL apprenticeships (not watered down ones).

wellused

I didn't see the programme but if a brand leader like Morrison's was shown to be cynically exploiting a loophole with the sole intention of making money do you think that will effect public confidence in Morrison's?

falko89

wellused wrote: »

I didn't see the programme but if a brand leader like Morrison's was shown to be cynically exploiting a loophole with the sole intention of making money do you think that will effect public confidence in Morrison's?

I doubt it, Isn't that why any employer takes on an apprentice, cheap labour, its not for the love of helping the community.

wellused

Just watched it on iplayer and Morrisons weren't mentioned that much but it does look as if they saw the apprenticeship scheme as a way to perhaps fund their training program, also the company who they use to oversee the training and issue the qualifications were making quite a bit of money for being rated as satisfactory. The programme didn't show the successful apprenticeship schemes where the training was given and a job was achieved at the end but the schemes which were content in merely providing a quick fix training scheme of dubious quality in my view should not be classed as apprenticeships and should not receive the government funding as such.