Restoration of the age related allowance

Babblerem

Why do they hate me now I'm 85? I have worked all my life since 14, paid full stamp and taxes, never been a burden on anyone; always been frugal in order to save for my old age and to save to buy a home for my disabled son and me. All I could afford was an 1880s terraced house with no bathroom and an outside toilet. Took ages to clean out mice and cockroaches.

Did my bit during WW11. E.g. was the 13-year old girl who scrambled over the iron railings (not yet taken for war effort) of a nearby park and extinguished incendiaries by frantically shovelling earth with seaside spade, so the fires wouldn’t guide the German bombers to their destination. After we were bombed-out we slept, sitting-up, on benches within the castle walls or bunks in a concrete basement in Westgate Street. Helped with salvage work such as salvaging what we could from gutted ruins of my High school when it had been fire-bombed After my husband left unexpectedly a few months before our son was born I did not become a burden to the state. I received the 6 weeks maternity money of a few shillings a week and lived on savings until I was able to return to full-time work again. My husband’s whereabouts were unknown and he never supported us. In those days there was no child care allowance for the first child; even if that child was handicapped and no help towards child-care.

Years later I saved the State a load of money by taking in my elderly parents from their council flat into my home when they were dreaded the thought of going into a nursing home. I cared for them unaided for over 16 years.

When I retired from local government after 30 yrs my pension was just £50 per week but I thought - 'it's not much but never mind, it will rise with cost of living' Now that my occupational pension is to be frozen for the third year and more, how long before it is worth zero!? It was a full-time job, with regular unpaid overtime, on 24-hour call with my home phone number in the book for emergencies, facing harrowing, arduous and often hazardous situations.

Despite his handicaps my son worked for many years until he was admitted to hospital critical care with insulin diabetes. I am still his sole carer but have always been ineligible for Carers’ Allowance. I can have a free bus pass, but I am unable to use public transport and taxi fares have gone up too!

Thought I had been punished enough when my savings were eroded by the recession and then even further by the low rates of interest. However, now I see that I must be punished again by the granny tax!

jem16

Babblerem wrote: »

When I retired from local government after 30 yrs my pension was just £50 per week but I thought - 'it's not much but never mind, it will rise with cost of living' Now that my occupational pension is to be frozen for the third year and more, how long before it is worth zero!?

Local Government pensions are index-linked. They have been going up by RPI ( now CPI ) each year. This year's increase will be 5.2%. So how is your pension frozen?

mirabelle

It's a tease from Babblerem and a bit of mickey taking Jem 16.

Jennifer_Jane

MonkeyMad wrote: »

You are talking about ways to claim money back. If you were to work enough hours a week you could also claim tax credits, but your not, so you can't. We are asking why should you be allowed to keep more untaxed income due to your age.

Genuine question - why should workers get additional tax breaks just because they are working. Why are pensioners' tax payments worth less than taxpayers'?

jamesd

Babblerem wrote: »

Why do they hate me now I'm 85?

Nobody hates you because you're 85. All that's happening is that the personal allowance for everyone is being gradually increased so it reaches the same level as yours is today. That'll simplify the tax system.

It'll also raise some useful extra money from the retiring baby boomers who because of the size of that generation are going to end up significantly increasing the amount per person that those still working pay in taxes to pay out pension and other benefits. This is a good thing that should go some way to reducing the inevitable tensions between young and old that the higher burden that will be placed on the young to support the old will cause.

At 85 there's a good chance that you'll be dead before the peak of that financial stress on the young arrives but those of us who are younger are going to have to live through that time while hoping that they are willing to continue paying the pensions.

If you want to wonder about something that may have a more substantial impact take a look at the possible combining of NI and income tax. Pensioners today don't pay NI on their income but if the two were combined those who aren't on low incomes might see a large increase in income tax.

fairleads

jamesd wrote: »

If you want to wonder about something that may have a more substantial impact take a look at the possible combining of NI and income tax. Pensioners today don't pay NI on their income but if the two were combined those who aren't on low incomes might see a large increase in income tax.

Yes, and if it does happen Dh will promote yet another, even more disingenuous explanation as to why it will make little or no difference to the pensioners tax obligation.

ffacoffipawb

margaretclare wrote: »

As regards not voting Con/Lib/Lab, I'm a member of a newish political party, the English Democrats. Until we get more members and a bigger vote, we can't even start to formulate detailed policies. However, this is what we say: Our pensioners should be a priority. And about tax: We would ensure that taxes are kept as low as possible. Rather than funding huge foreign aid budgets we would lower taxes. And The EU costs us £65 bn a year..we'd be better off out of the EU, trading with who we wish, making our own laws and taxes.

fairleads wrote: »

Based upon the above comment I'd say the title of your party is an oxymoron.

Well, I think you are half right.

MonkeyMad

Jennifer_Jane wrote: »

Genuine question - why should workers get additional tax breaks just because they are working. Why are pensioners' tax payments worth less than taxpayers'?

Because money received from active work is perceived as 'worth' more than that received from not working? No-one has said pensioners tax payments are worth less we are asking why they should keep more in the first place.

Pensioners by and large are a group not expected to be in work so you shouldn't compare the two groups. You would draw analogy to Government ideals that you should always be better off on a low wage but working, as opposed to just claiming benefits. A healthy economy needs to encourage people into work and for the most part it will be younger people that will be doing the work. By that measure there is a good argument for younger people having a larger allowance than the elderly and I suspect that wouldn't be popular either.

margaretclare

MonkeyMad wrote: »

Because money received from active work is perceived as 'worth' more than that received from not working? No-one has said pensioners tax payments are worth less we are asking why they should keep more in the first place.

Pensioners by and large are a group not expected to be in work so you shouldn't compare the two groups. You would draw analogy to Government ideals that you should always be better off on a low wage but working, as opposed to just claiming benefits. A healthy economy needs to encourage people into work and for the most part it will be younger people that will be doing the work. By that measure there is a good argument for younger people having a larger allowance than the elderly and I suspect that wouldn't be popular either.

In addition, in the older age-groups by and large you're not expected to have so many expenses as younger people. You don't need e.g. clothes for going to work. Mortgage should (hopefully) have been paid off. Travel to work. These kinds of things.

It was a heartrending story above from the 85-year old who feels 'hated'. I disagree to some extent with jamesd - she may easily have another 10 or more years of life, not necessarily be dead soon!

To the comments about the political party which I support, I cannot see why there is a contradiction between the words 'English' and 'Democrat'. We are English and we are democratic. I hope the comment about 'oxymoron' wasn't being clever-clever, thinking that I might not know what the word meant???

I still feel sorry for the younger people. All right, my generation were expected to work - like the 85-year-old above - but at least there was work for us to do. There were plenty of jobs. Not the case nowadays, at all! The younger of my granddaughters has a BTEC in Travel and Tourism. She gained this qualification just as the recession hit and the travel industry was affected. What does she do now? A part-time job as a picker for internet grocery orders. She regards herself as lucky to have that. In my youth part-time work would not have been considered at all suitable for a single girl.

zygurat789

The age allowance started in 1920 in recognition of the fact that life becomes more expensive as you get older. All of you sitting in your employers centrally heated offices all day should be made to pay tax on a BIK.
Whilst pensioners may receive CPI increases their pension will not increase otherwise. If this happened at work I, and all of you, would be after another job pronto.

This only effects pensioners earning between £10,500 and £30,510 so the amount of tax collected in total will be a miniscule % of the total Income tax receipts, it will, however, be a much larger % of the pensioners income.
Let's not forget that the allowance is not entirely for being over 65. You may remember that GB abolished the 10% rate and replaced it with a 20% rate. This cost all those on lower incomes money. AD had to do something to alleviate this and added a bit more to the age allowance,
but it was to compensate for the doubling of the tax rate.
Yes, we are all in this together, but the burden should fall on the broadest shoulders said GO. He also considers tax avoidance immoral, well I would like to know how a millionaire avoids paying tax at the highest rate?