Is fraud propping up house prices ?

DervProf

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

And to be honest, I'm fairly relaxed about whether some of that income comes from legal attempts to minimise taxes such are available to the rich exploiting loopholes, or a bit of cash-in-hand work, such is usually all that is available to the poor to minimise taxes.

Mmmm, I'm kind of with you on that. Legal loophole ? No problem. A bit of cash in hand to minimise taxes - that's hardly going to mean that someone can obtain a much larger mortgage than they otherwise would. Grey area, but I know where you are coming from.

I still think getting banks to inform the tax man of a mortgage applicant's income figures would be a fairly simple thing to do, and a good way to prevent serious tax evasion and in many cases could simplify the application process.

Ponzi

An interesting post Derv. You are on the right lines.

Irrespective of what effect it might or might not be having on housing demand, Mortgage Fraud in the UK is going to emerge as one of the great scandals of the decade. All we need to make this happen is:

1 interest rate rise to say 6 percent
2 unemployment at 2 million
3 the real house price crash to happen...

Now call me the harbinger of DOOM if you like, but any of these three, or more likely a combo of 1&2 and we get the perfect test of all those lovely high LTV and self-cert mortgages out there, all those low rental yield properties, all of this folk who lied about their salary to get a mortgage. And that's only the residential stuff...just watch what will happen to commercial real-estate...that will go BOOM. Mark my words.

Ponzi

An interesting post Derv. You are on the right lines.

Irrespective of what effect it might or might not be having on housing demand, Mortgage Fraud in the UK is going to emerge as one of the great scandals of the decade. It only really gets detected, and even then only in part, when mortgages go into arrears. It's only then that specialist teams within mortgage lenders look at what went wrong.

All we need to make this happen is:

1 interest rate rise to say 6 percent
2 unemployment at 2 million
3 the real house price crash to happen...

Now call me the harbinger of DOOM if you like, but any of these three, or more likely a combo of 1&2 and we get the perfect test of all those lovely high LTV and self-cert mortgages out there, all those low rental yield properties, all of this folk who lied about their salary to get a mortgage. And that's only the residential stuff...just watch what will happen to commercial real-estate...that will go BOOM. Mark my words.

nollag2006

DervProf wrote: »

So, is the "recovery" in the property market ... based on good, honest work, or is it partly due to dodgy dealings?

Glad that yet another bear acknowledges the property market is in recovery.

Soon there will only be brit1234 (and his sockies Negative Equity and CrashBangWallop) and Graham left hanging on to the vain hope of the 2008 crash returning

Jimmy_31

nollag2006 wrote: »

Glad that yet another bear acknowledges the property market is in recovery.

Soon there will only be brit1234 (and his sockies Negative Equity and CrashBangWallop) and Graham left hanging on to the vain hope of the 2008 crash returning

No recovery around here, no price increases in years, prices are still falling.

nollag2006

Jimmy_31 wrote: »

No recovery around here, no price increases in years, prices are still falling.

Please note that Jimbo lives in a caravan, and sometimes with his mummy, so these sort of "around here" remarks mean nothing.

The hard evidence from the likes of the Land Registry, Rightmove and Nationwide all confirm rises over the past six months in large swathes of the country.

Grim northern towns will struggle to keep up - much as in the same way as you struggle to keep up with the economic arguments on this board.

Does mummy know you are chatting to strangers again?

Here's an interesting article for you Jimbo:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/620710.stm

Jimmy_31

nollag2006 wrote: »

Please note that Jimbo lives in a caravan, and sometimes with his mummy, so these sort of "around here" remarks mean nothing.

The hard evidence from the likes of the Land Registry, Rightmove and Nationwide all confirm rises over the past six months in large swathes of the country.

Grim northern towns will struggle to keep up - much as in the same way as you struggle to keep up with the economic arguments on this board.

Does mummy know you are chatting to strangers again?

Here's an interesting article for you Jimbo:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/620710.stm

I live in an average northern town that saw the boom and is now seeing the bust.

100K+ apartments are now below 40k in the town centre.

You seem to be trying to state you are cleverer than me, this may be your superiority complex kicking in so ill ignore it.

Good luck with your BTL empire that is now worth less than you paid for it.

Im sure the south has some grim towns as well, thats where you have invested isnt it:D.

Go and make some more identities and try and convince people on the house buying and selling board that now is the time to buy, wont be long before you dissapear from this board now that the crash is warming up, dont worry plenty of other rampers have already bailed out of the forum.

brit1234

Jimmy_31 wrote: »

I live in an average northern town that saw the boom and is now seeing the bust.

100K+ apartments are now below 40k in the town centre.

You seem to be trying to state you are cleverer than me, this may be your superiority complex kicking in so ill ignore it.

Good luck with your BTL empire that is now worth less than you paid for it.

Im sure the south has some grim towns as well, thats where you have invested isnt it:D.

Go and make some more identities and try and convince people on the house buying and selling board that now is the time to buy, wont be long before you dissapear from this board now that the crash is warming up, dont worry plenty of other rampers have already bailed out of the forum.

+1

Another estate agent on the radio talking of meltdown, falling prices and higher LTVs due to falling prices. End of Fridays wake up to money:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/money#playepisode1

Nolags buy to lets are placed in one of the few areas of London which have fallen in value over the last few years. He is getting very desperate with his fake accounts trying to ramp on the main board. He secretly knows it is over with the stamp duty changes and higher mortgage rates.

ess0two

Jimmy_31 wrote: »

I live in an average northern town that saw the boom and is now seeing the bust.

100K+ apartments are now below 40k in the town centre.

You seem to be trying to state you are cleverer than me, this may be your superiority complex kicking in so ill ignore it.

Good luck with your BTL empire that is now worth less than you paid for it.

Im sure the south has some grim towns as well, thats where you have invested isnt it:D.

Go and make some more identities and try and convince people on the house buying and selling board that now is the time to buy, wont be long before you dissapear from this board now that the crash is warming up, dont worry plenty of other rampers have already bailed out of the forum.

Yeah,Yeah man up and show us a rightmove link.I dont dispute falling prices its just 40k apartments.

Shut me up once and for all.................

nollag2006

Jimmy_31 wrote: »

I live in an average northern town that saw the boom and is now seeing the bust.

100K+ apartments are now below 40k in the town centre.

You repeatedly assert this, and yet dont have any evidence whatsoever to back it up.

I put it to you, that you are telling porkies.

Please prove me wrong, by posting a link

We both know that you can't.

Jimmy_31 wrote: »

You seem to be trying to state you are cleverer than me, this may be your superiority complex kicking in so ill ignore it.

Au contraire Jimbo, I admire the intellectual rigour of your debates. I have learnt a lot about man-boys who live at home with their mummy in our cosy little chats

Jimmy_31 wrote: »

Good luck with your BTL empire that is now worth less than you paid for it.

Im sure the south has some grim towns as well, thats where you have invested isnt it:D.
.

Thanks for the kind wishes Jimbo, but again you are being obtuse.

My two first BTLs are in Ealing and are both yielding very healthy rental returns and are also up well over 15% since purchase in May 2009, which is in line with the overall returns in Ealing borough, according to the LR:


[IMG]http://www1.landregistry.gov.uk/Apps/house-prices/house-price-index-custom-reports/hpi_report.asp?g=1&gt=1&a=Ealing&s=01 May 2009&e=01 February 2012&t=1[/IMG]
I have since acquired another property in South London, which is also doing well, thanks

Jimmy_31 wrote: »

Go and make some more identities and try and convince people on the house buying and selling board that now is the time to buy, wont be long before you dissapear from this board now that the crash is warming up, dont worry plenty of other rampers have already bailed out of the forum.

Don't really have the time or interest to do that Jimbo.

Isn't it time for lunch yet? Hope mummy has made you something nice