Bankruptcy Nightmare - Abroad

SeniorUnit1

Hi everyone I need some help in my quest for bankruptcy.

I have a slightly strange situation so Im going to try and list this in bullet points so its not to confusing. Help on this would much very much appreciated.

1, I purchased a new build with my ex 5 years ago, one year later she leaves to Australia leaving me with a £690 a month morgage. I have paid this untill present interest only. Last year in dropped to £330-£400 per month.

2, The Ex has massive debts that are not tied to me or the house, i return them to sender. Not to much problem as of yet.

3, I lost job for 3 months early in 2010 and paid half payments on the morgage for 3 months, this arrangement was agreed with by the morgage company. I have been making additional £68 payments everymonth to cover this. I owe them £200 in arrears, not a problem.

4, In England the mortgage company would not let me sell, they would not let me rent without the two signatures of the account and finally would not take the court order.

5, I rented the house out and later found this to be not illegal but it would be "out of the terms and conditions of the morgage", However the lettings company advised this was ok. (BRIDGEFORDS LETTINGS). So I have some tennants in now who are superb, pay on time and are paying the morgage.

6, I moved to another EU country and have been here 4 months 2 days. However I have the house I still pay for on my own in England. I have maintained a home there, a bank account.

7, I went to court late last year to try and have the other party removed form the house, morgage and everything. My solicitor had me chase her through letters, emails and adverts on her local newspapers. Basically used my best endeavours but to no avail. The judge granted me a court order to this effect within 5minutes of being present in front of him. So all interest in the property was to be transfered to me, subject to the outstanding morgage with GE moeny. The judge then stated he would sign on behalf of the ex partner.

8, I sent court order to the morgage company who simply ignored it. I chased them an finally got an answer. The answer being "no we would not remove the other party off the house as on record we have you down as being unable to afford this house on your own". So my efforst and money were wasted. I Was back to square one.

9, If the morgage company find out im in trouble. Eitherway they will not let me rent it or sell it. I do owe a small amount on an over draft and loan (3400 altogeather), which I keep up the payments on, but only because I rented the house. When they stop then I cannot keep up the payments.

So I decided to let it go and go bankrupt. Ive had more hassle with this company (GE MONEY) that i have time in my life to type. I contacted ND help line and a solicitor who have advised me they can he me go bankrupt. The solictor had all the case notes form my previouse solictior to do with the transfer of equity court order. He wants to charge me 250 pounds just to read them, I do not mind paying him if this will help my case to go bankrupt, will it?

My Question is mainly because I live in another EU country and have been OVER the 3 months BK tourism law, can I still go bankrupt in the UK because I have MAINTAINED A HOME in England, and have a bank account?

Please can someone help?.

alastairq

hi.....does the link below help [from the stickies above, to be honest]

http://www.bis.gov.uk/insolvency/personal-insolvency/bankruptcy-what-is-bankruptcy/make-myself-bankrupt-abroad

SeniorUnit1

Hi yes it does, but the problem I have is the section "centre of main iterest"... I work and live abraod but the main interest in this case is the house in england which im unabel to have no matter if i can pay for it or not. I have a solictor who says he can help, im assuming he will use his powers to convince the courts that the main interest is the UK. But if that fails i then have lost my money. The other way is using these guys..bankruptcy.org.uk/archives/item/3810-foreign-bankruptcy-service...


they have already told me they can help...but do they just want my money?... massivly confused here.

debtinfo

You are in a little bit of a grey area at the moment so i cant give you a definite answer, if you had lived abroad less than 3 months then you could, if it was more than 6 months then you could not. The rule is actually about where your centre of main interest has been for the greater part of the last 6 months so it is possibly debateablebut stirickly speaking probably not, as to whether maintaining a home here would put your COMI here again is debateable, but if you have been living and working abroad then it would probably be a know.

As i say you are on the grey are period, you might get a judge that uses there discretion and says it makes most sence to go bankrupt here because your debts and assets are here but you might get one that takes a more strict view.

Have you looked at the bankruptcy provisions in the country you are in, or just maintaining the property with a tennant until it can be sold, ie when there is equity again

SeniorUnit1

Thanks... I see what you mean. Ill just call tomorow and find out.

In regards to tennants, no not really because Im not supposed to be renting and im unabel to sell with another persons name on the morgage. So I cannot do anything. They tell me i cant afford it on my own, cant rent it, cant sell it. So im knackered.

Im hoping that tomorow will clear things up when i speak to the IS. And also if my solicitor makes a good case from all my old case notes then i might be able to do it. Hopefully.

Its a real shame because the hosue is being paid for and i have good tennants.

debtinfo

Hi, here is the IS guidance about COMI

41.62 Definition of centre of main interests (COMI)
Currently, there is no definition of COMI except in the recitals (see paragraph 41.19) URL="http://www.insolvencydirect.bis.gov.uk/freedomofinformation/technical/TechnicalManual/Ch37-48/chapter41/part5/part%205%20notes.htm#3"][COLOR=#0066cc]note 3[/COLOR][/URL to the Regulation which state:
“The ‘centre of main interests’ should correspond to the place where the debtor conducts the administration of his interests on a regular basis and is therefore ascertainable by third parties”.
In broad terms this will be the country in which the debtor mainly carries out their trade, profession or self employment. Where the debtor does not trade or carry on a profession, the state in which he/she habitually resides is considered to be the COMI URL="http://www.insolvencydirect.bis.gov.uk/freedomofinformation/technical/TechnicalManual/Ch37-48/chapter41/part5/part%205%20notes.htm#4"][COLOR=#0066cc]note 4[/COLOR][/URL. Where the debtor resides in one country but trades in another, it is the country in which the trade is carried out that is considered to be the COMI URL="http://www.insolvencydirect.bis.gov.uk/freedomofinformation/technical/TechnicalManual/Ch37-48/chapter41/part5/part%205%20notes.htm#5"][COLOR=#0066cc]note 5[/COLOR][/URL. This may be particularly applicable to doctors or dentists regularly carrying out locum work in the UK URL="http://www.insolvencydirect.bis.gov.uk/freedomofinformation/technical/TechnicalManual/Ch37-48/chapter41/part5/part%205%20notes.htm#6"][COLOR=#0066cc]note 6[/COLOR][/URL.
Where a person’s only connection with a country is that they work there on a non self-employed basis (perhaps, commuting from a neighbouring country), then the COMI is will generally be in the country in which they live and consequently pay bills, operate a bank account and buy items, etc.
The COMI is determined at the date the petition is presented and not where, historically, the relevant activity was carried out URL="http://www.insolvencydirect.bis.gov.uk/freedomofinformation/technical/TechnicalManual/Ch37-48/chapter41/part5/part%205%20notes.htm#7"][COLOR=#0066cc]note 7[/COLOR][/URL. Therefore, the location of creditors and the country in which debts were incurred are not material issues in determining a COMI.


The IS are not allowed to advise so they will probably just tell you the basics as above rather than giving you an OK in your particular circumstances

regarding the House, if the alternative is bankruptcy, who cares if you are breaking the mortgage company rules, the worst that can happen is that they repossess and you go bankrupt if you see what i mean, so there is not much to lose if bankruptcy is your only other option anyway.

Also, the court order gives you the equity, so the only thing stopping you from selling is the negative equity, once that is gone then the mortgage company would not be able to stop you from selling, as they get their full payment

alastairq

Hi....it may be possible to petition BR in the country you currently have your COMI in.....if it is within the EU[aside from Denmark]...

The IS will tell you if a Trustee from the country of your COMI is acceptable, and your assets can be realised under that BR.

sorry, DI, busy researching

SeniorUnit1

alastairq wrote: »

Hi....it may be possible to petition BR in the country you currently have your COMI in.....if it is within the EU[aside from Denmark]...

The IS will tell you if a Trustee from the country of your COMI is acceptable, and your assets can be realised under that BR.

sorry, DI, busy researching

So if i tell them that the interests are the house that i still pay for is the interest they will tell me if i can go BR int he uk?

silvercar

Also, the court order gives you the equity, so the only thing stopping you from selling is the negative equity, once that is gone then the mortgage company would not be able to stop you from selling, as they get their full payment

I agree with this. The court has given you ownership of the equity in the property. If GE Money insist on your ex's name being on the mortgage then it makes little difference to a sale. Once the property is sold the sale money is used to clear the mortgage and GE Money have no further say in your life. They cannot block a sale provided their debt is paid in full.

SeniorUnit1

41.62 Definition of centre of main interests (COMI)
Currently, there is no definition of COMI except in the recitals (see to the Regulation which state:
“The ‘centre of main interests’ should correspond to the place where the debtor conducts the administration of his interests on a regular basis and is therefore ascertainable by third parties”.
In broad terms this will be the country in which the debtor mainly carries out their trade, profession or self employment. Where the debtor does not trade or carry on a profession, the state in which he/she habitually resides is considered to be the COMI Where the debtor resides in one country but trades in another, it is the country in which the trade is carried out that is considered to be the COMI This may be particularly applicable to doctors or dentists regularly carrying out locum work in the UK [
Where a person’s only connection with a country is that they work there on a non self-employed basis (perhaps, commuting from a neighbouring country), then the COMI is will generally be in the country in which they live and consequently pay bills, operate a bank account and buy items, etc.
The COMI is determined at the date the petition is presented and not where, historically, the relevant activity was carried out Therefore, the location of creditors and the country in which debts were incurred are not material issues in determining a COMI.


The IS are not allowed to advise so they will probably just tell you the basics as above rather than giving you an OK in your particular circumstances

regarding the House, if the alternative is bankruptcy, who cares if you are breaking the mortgage company rules, the worst that can happen is that they repossess and you go bankrupt if you see what i mean, so there is not much to lose if bankruptcy is your only other option anyway.

Also, the court order gives you the equity, so the only thing stopping you from selling is the negative equity, once that is gone then the mortgage company would not be able to stop you from selling, as they get their full payment.

That was great thanks for your efforts...

So if i stop paying for the house it will be repossesed and then what?.. they will chase me abroad for the remaining moneys owed?....

the other option is sending back the keys and walking away. surely theyll hunt me down like a pack of angry dogs?. I cant be that hard to find surely?

leveller2911

SeniorUnit1 wrote: »

4, In England the mortgage company would not let me sell, they would not let me rent without the two signatures of the account and finally would not take the court order.

5, I rented the house out and later found this to be not illegal but it would be "out of the terms and conditions of the morgage", However the lettings company advised this was ok. (BRIDGEFORDS LETTINGS). So I have some tennants in now who are superb, pay on time and are paying the morgage.


9, If the morgage company find out im in trouble. Eitherway they will not let me rent it or sell it.




Please can someone help?.

I'm more worried about your tenants .Do you have the Gas safety certificate? etc to show tht the property is safe to let to tenants?.It sounds like you have rented the house out without permission from the Bank....If it gets reposessed its the tenants I feels sorry for.

Don't believe what the letting agents say ,its down to you to find oud what the Rules/regulations are for letting the house.