Property tax mulled over

tartanterra

If you work, pay your taxes, play by the rules and pay (what the incumbent government deems to be) your fair share and invest what is left over into a home for your family, is it right that the government can then come along in 40 years time and tax you again, because the house that you bought all those years ago has risen in value?

Because, if that is the case, the the government should also be going after anyone who has done well out of their possessions, whatever they are.

It's easily done.

Parents bought The Beatles first album in 1963 which happens to have a black and gold label? It's worth at least £3500 now, so it's only fair we start to tax you on that isn't it? Let's call it £50 a year - after all it's not going to go down in value, is it!

That ring that granny left you when she died - that's vintage jewellery now, worth a few bob! For arguments sake, let's tax you say £30 a year. can't say fairer than that!

Those jeans you bought at a car boot sale last week; turns out they were a limited edition designer pair. You obviously have an an eye for a decent bit of fashion - been shooting up in value ever since! Let's call it a fiver a year in tax?

Actually, as the government, were not too sure what assets you have, so we'll be round next week to go through your cupboards, sock drawer etc. After all, we're all in it together!

A._Badger

tartanterra wrote: »

If you work, pay your taxes, play by the rules and pay (what the incumbent government deems to be) your fair share and invest what is left over into a home for your family, is it right that the government can then come along in 40 years time and tax you again, because the house that you bought all those years ago has risen in value?

For heaven's sake don't encourage them!

IveSeenTheLight

Emy1501 wrote: »

Whats a fair share though? A recent survey suggested that areas like Elmbridge etc ie the wealthy areas of the south had been the least affected by the cuts so far.

My understanding is a Mansion tax will cost someone living in a 2m house an etc 5k a year. Not a huge amount of money for anyone who can afford to live in one of these houses regardless of whether they are a pensioner or not.

We are all in this together and a tax like this may go some way to show this.

One concern I have over a property tax, even council tax which is based on the value of a property, is that it could force people out of their family homes when they retire.

live in a property for 45+ years and when your income drops, you may not be able to afford the circa £2,500 per year council tax, simply because you bought a property affordable many years earlier.

the_flying_pig

tartanterra wrote: »

If you work, pay your taxes, play by the rules and pay (what the incumbent government deems to be) your fair share and invest what is left over into a home for your family, is it right that the government can then come along in 40 years time and tax you again, because the house that you bought all those years ago has risen in value?

Because, if that is the case, the the government should also be going after anyone who has done well out of their possessions, whatever they are.

It's easily done.

Parents bought The Beatles first album in 1963 which happens to have a black and gold label? It's worth at least £3500 now, so it's only fair we start to tax you on that isn't it? Let's call it £50 a year - after all it's not going to go down in value, is it!

That ring that granny left you when she died - that's vintage jewellery now, worth a few bob! For arguments sake, let's tax you say £30 a year. can't say fairer than that!

Those jeans you bought at a car boot sale last week; turns out they were a limited edition designer pair. You obviously have an an eye for a decent bit of fashion - been shooting up in value ever since! Let's call it a fiver a year in tax?

Actually, as the government, were not too sure what assets you have, so we'll be round next week to go through your cupboards, sock drawer etc. After all, we're all in it together!

If the total value of all those things is less than £2m then obviously not because the owner isn't 'rich', only someone with a couple of nice but insignificant possessions. Note also that a mansion tax would only affect someone with a single house worth £2m, not (say) a string of BTLs.

Also valuation sounds difficult and time consuming.

Also it sounds like it'd be easy for people to 'hide' possessions of this sort from the taxman.

Radiantsoul

I don't really buy into forcing people out of their homes. The government could put a charge on a property and receive the cash when the home is sold. The government would in effect "loan" the money and charge an interest rate on it.

People might argue that it is another death tax, but it isn't really as if the person had paid it in their lifetime their inheritable wealth would be lowered.

Emy1501

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

One concern I have over a property tax, even council tax which is based on the value of a property, is that it could force people out of their family homes when they retire.

live in a property for 45+ years and when your income drops, you may not be able to afford the circa £2,500 per year council tax, simply because you bought a property affordable many years earlier.

I can see the point about council tax but I'm not sure that there are really many if any pensioners living in 2m houses who are living on the poverty line. As i say I would rather the tax etc be collected another way ie closing loop holes etc. but when there are old people dying every day because they can't afford to heat their house its difficult to really get too upset about the odd person who may have to sell a 2m house and move into a 1m house.

No one likes the cuts or any of the governments ways to generate etc income but we all have to get on with it.

tartanterra

the_flying_pig wrote: »

If the total value of all those things is less than £2m then obviously not because the owner isn't 'rich', only someone with a couple of nice but insignificant possessions. Note also that a mansion tax would only affect someone with a single house worth £2m, not (say) a string of BTLs.

Also valuation sounds difficult and time consuming.

Also it sounds like it'd be easy for people to 'hide' possessions of this sort from the taxman.

How about a window tax then? You can't really hide those, can you.

The term "daylight robbery" is thought to have originated from the window tax.

wotsthat

Emy1501 wrote: »

I can see the point about council tax but I'm not sure that there are really many if any pensioners living in 2m houses who are living on the poverty line. As i say I would rather the tax etc be collected another way ie closing loop holes etc. but when there are old people dying every day because they can't afford to heat their house its difficult to really get too upset about the odd person who may have to sell a 2m house and move into a 1m house. QUOTE]

To a degree we´ve fallen into the type of trap often laid by politicians. In this case we are focusing on people living in £2m houses and thinking about what "mansion" tax actually means.

What if it applied to houses over £200k - what would we think then?

After all a house of that value is above average and would be considered by many to be a mansion and occupied by a rich person.

Maybe Vince Cable will clarify his remarks?

roddydogs

Was so funny seeing Kirsty trying to defend the"PoorOld Widow" living in a 2M pound house..........pull the other one.

tartanterra

I don't agree with wealthy individuals using offshore trusts to buy property, therefore avoiding stamp duty. This is something that needs rectifying in the budget and should actually be retrospective. Taxation should be fair to all.

However, if you pay your income tax and national insurance, then use what's left to buy a house - paying stamp duty and VAT on the purchase, then pay your council tax based on your property, then I think a line should be drawn.

Property tax is a step too far.

A lot of this thread just appears to be based on jealousy rather than fair taxation.
What about the National Trust? How on earth are they going to be able to pay this tax on all their properties? What about Local Authorities and County Councils? Are you happy to see a steep rise in your Council Tax to pay for this tax on public buildings?

Hell, why don't we just adopt communism if you are so envious of other peoples possessions?