Help with Annual Leave

jazabelle

I am trying to work out my annual leave, as sadly my company aren't being very helpful in this matter. I'm struggling to work it out and pointers would be really appreciated.

I worked for Company 1 and had 26 days holiday + 8 bank holidays. This was pro-rated as I work 22.5 hours a week, and 7.5 hours a day. Our leave year runs from 1st April onwards.

I was TUPEd to Company 2 in July. Between April - July I took 4 days leave (30 hours leave.)

I then had to go onto long-term sick leave and returned mid February (the 15th) and from that date went onto a 16 hour week.

The annual leave runs out at the end of March, but they won't tell me how much I have. I also don't trust them to give me the correct information, sadly.

So I'd like to know how much annual leave I have, but have no idea how to work it out, and pro-rata my 26 days + 8 days bank holiday.

Also, Company 1 worked out part time members of staff's holiday in hours. Company 2 works it out on days, and don't take into account hours worked. For example someone that worked 8 hour days over four days, was only getting four days entitlement at 7 hour days, the companies standard working day.

I need to make sure they get it right, as I will be leaving the company at the end of March. (Thank goodness!)

Any help/tips would be appreciated please! I'm sorry if it's easy to work out, maths isn't my strongest subject.

jazabelle

I've just managed to find an old leave card that has a formula on for working out my annual leave. Using this I've worked out my annual leave is 117 hours for the whole year on 22.5 hours. How do I work out that last month and a bit on 16 hours though please?

Plus I still don't understand how to add bank holidays to this. I need to work out my pro-rated entitlement to 8 days bank holiday please.

jazabelle

Okay, so I tell you what I've worked out, perhaps people can tell me if it's right!

Annual leave (26 days) + bank holiday (8 days) = 34 days
Full time entitlement would be 34 times my working day - 7.5 hours = 255 hours.

Now on the spreadsheet is says my entitlement is 255 hours divided by 36 (I don't know where this 36 comes from?) times by 22.5 (my working week.) This gets me 159.37 hours of annual leave. But I don't know what the 36 means?

And I don't know how to work it out as a split year so that 1.5 months is on 16 hours, rather than 22.5.

Frogletina

I would imagine the 36 is the hours for full time workers

jazabelle

Aha, of course! I know I'd have a duh moment - thank you.

So now I can work out my year's entitlement, but am lost when it gets to the 1.5 months on 16 hours.

getmore4less

OK you work 3 days at 7.5 hours

full time holidays is 26 + 8 bH so 34days.

holidays are prorata, days is easiest, 3 * 34/5 = 20.4, in hours that is 153.

Any holiday(inc BH) should come out of those hours/days at the 7.5hr per day.

Now you say they have done 22.5 * 255/36 =159.375.

36 is not 5 *7.5
What hours per day do full timers work? if a short day how are holidays paid on a short day?

there is a discrepancy here which will complicate but I can work round this for now by doing both.

back to the first post.

Holiday year 1 April-31st March.

holidays acrue during sickness

when did the contract change to 16hr? Assume the day you started back.

How many years have you worked there did you give notice or the company when was that?

1april-14 feb 45weeks 2 days

153(159.37)*45.4/52= 133.58(139.14)

My calc is prorata based on 3 days @ 7.5hr this is the minimum they owe for that period less any holiday taken,
() is based on the calc you gave.

15feb- 31march 6weeks 3 days
not so easy but we can make assumptions
If full time is now 7hrs a day then this is 7 * 34 *(16/35) * 6.6/52 so 13.81hrs less any holiday taken.

So recon they owe in the order of 147-153hrs less 30hr(4 days) so around 15-16.5 days @ 7.5hrs a day depending on exact calculations.

If they come up with anything less than 15 then they are making an error somewhere.


I would watch out for the days and getting paid only 7hrs this may well be wrong depending on how they have done it.


Definately worth pointing this out to the other part timers so they can get it sorted.

jazabelle

I have worked there three and a half years. I reduced my own hours due to my health at that point (mostly their behaviour towards me caused me so much stress that my condition flared up).

One problem I have is that I don't know the full time workers standard hours. They won't tell us. I'm not the only part timer to have issues. One other part timer (who is actually only four hours off being full time) is getting way less than she should, as they are basing it on three standard hours days, rather than her actual days. Her leave has changed four times this month alone - without any notifcation. She went from being approved to carry five days over to next year, to checking her holiday the next day and finding she was now on minus one day. She queried this, and next time she checked she had eight days to take!

She also kept asking what their standard day was that they were basing it on and they wouldn't tell her.

After I'd been on sick leave for six months, my doctor asked them for a phased return. They grudging said okay, we came up with hours, etc and I started back there when I got an email saying by the way, you won't get paid.

I responded to say I realised it wasn't law, but I thought it was best practice to enable a phased return. They replied that as a compromise, they have enabled me to continue to acrue annual leave while on sick leave. But this is law?!

But what should I expect from a company whose first move was to remove all my reasonable adjustments, break my TUPE, change my job role and make like horrible. The worst part is that they're a disability charity.

The standard day at the previous company was 7.2.

jazabelle

Sorry, I'm still kind of lost. I have a lot trouble with maths.

So I put in the 7.2 into your calculation above - and got the answer of 14.2 days. I then don't understand how to make this into my hours and how to do the 16 hours part.

getmore4less

Why were you not getting paid or SSP while off sick?

The easiest part is the 3 day week at 7.5 hours a day this is most of the accrued holidays anyway upto when you returned.

153(159.37)*45.4/52= 133.58(139.14), less the 30hr allready taken.

so 103.58 @ 7.5 per day is 13.81 days.

OK the last 6.4 weeks might be a bit harder to get exact but 16hr is about 1/2 time and 6.4/52 is 12%. so 34* 0.5 * 0.12 is around 2 days.

If it was statutory minimum is it calculated t 12.07% on hours so 16*6.4*0.1207 about 13 hours so still aound 2 days @7.5 hr.

So I think if they offer(based on 7.5hr) 15days they are short, 16 about right any more OK. So I would probably just take 15 or over and get out, 14 or less kick of.


OK one thing on holidays, there are various ways to work it out but they must at least be as good as the statutory way of working it out.

The statutory entitlement is 5.6 weeks worth of whatever you do which for a full timer is 28days,, since full timers get 34days part timers(on regular hours) should get at least 6.8 weeks worth of their normal regular hours.


If they want to use hours like the 12.07% for statutory then they should use 6.8/(52-6.8) = 15%

So for your 6.4 weeks at 16hr you can use 15% to work out the hours owed.


Back to the way the old company worked out the hours. they used 34 days at 7.5 to get the 155hr for full timers but you say they only did 7.2, that is where the difference comes from, they got it wrong in your favour.

Bottom line will be how much of a fuss you want to make

MIght be good idea to preempt them with a number you would be happy with and can show the working.

They are either incompetant or deliberately cheating workers(I made my bet).

Sorry this may be over complicating.

if you break it down into pre 16hrs/sick the calculation should be accepted, for the latter part actual worked hours may be the way to go rather than weeks.

Convincing them they are doing holidays wrong for part timers needs someone to stand up and put in a complaint and take it as far as a tribunal if they won't fix it. Need to establish if this is deliberate or just incompetance.

jazabelle

Thank you very much for your help.

They paid me sick leave, they wouldn't pay for the phased return (i.e. they won't pay the hours I don't work.)

I will be taking the matter further for them on a number of issues now I have a new job to escape to!

Thank you again!