MSE News: 'I'm on benefits but I'm no scrounger'

borkid

zigzigzag wrote: »

It is far too easy to write-off and discredit people's valid opinions by calling them 'benefit bashers', thereby saving you from having actually to engage with their viewpoints. I would never consider myself a 'benefit basher', but I personally know lots of people who bend (if not outright abuse) the system - eg choose not to work or even look for work when they are fully capable of finding work for years and years (so they can happily enjoy their hobbies), ask their employer to lay them off so that they can collect benefits and enjoy spending all day at home with their kids, hide income and savings to qualify for more benefits etc - and these are intelligent, able-bodied friends and relatives of mine! And I've read of families who enjoy more luxuries on benefits than many working families do eg http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16812185. Like jumbo said above, I want these people taken off their benefits so that people like Ross can be treated decently.

So let's not pretend that the benefits system is only there for people who need it, or that all benefits recipients are as honest and decent as Ross, or that benefits = poverty, and let's allow both sides of the discussion a voice without writing-off people who simply happen to have a different view.

But if they are defrauding the system then you need to tell the benefits fraud department.

Disabledmumof4

Dognobs wrote: »

I can speak from both sides as I was unemployed for a year and claiming. I WAS SHOCKED AT HOW MUCH HELP YOU GET!!! It is too much! I own my home so I was not reciving HB and only had a small amout of CTB paid. OK my wife is working in a ok job HOWEVER we have never lived above our means we made adjustments and have no debts and we lived fine. I also have ASD (I was only getting JSA) so finding a job was harder for me. But I work out that we are about £50 a week better off with me working but It is PRIDE and GOOD FOR YOU TO GET UP IN THE MORNING AND DO SOMETHING! Why people get upset is you see ALOT of people on ESA / DLA for stress, depression, anxiety, drugs/drink problems, chronic fatigue syndrome, Bad back etc driving around in a brand new disabilty car and leading a normal life when challanged they just say I was having a good day. Or a single parent walking around with UGG

boots owns 50" tv and a iPhone
getting a brand new build council house and grants for furnish it.
Yes there will be the few that struggle but it won't be many.
BENIFITS ARE A LIFELINE NOT A LIFESTYLE. Lets get rid of the
greedy and help the real needy!

Right, for a start I have ME which is often incorrectly classed as CFS and it is no simple illness, please take the time to read my post on page 8 or 9 (sorry can't remember - cognitive distinction).
Secondly please will everyone stop judging people on what they own! I had a life before illness and disability. I own a pair of Ugg boots too, they were bought for me as easier to get on and off, are fantastic with my thermostatic malfunction, I go hot then cold and they adjust accordingly to my frets temperature. They are perverse for when I'm in my wheelchair. The rare time I am out I do look my best as I am 99% bedridden, always stuck in pjs, struggling to get showers often etc so when able to get out I have been showered, nicely dressed, hair and make up done for me to disguise my grey face and dark circles under my eyes. I proudly take with me my Karen Millen handbag, my iPhone and my iPad (this has alarms ets for medications etc as I have that many to take. It is also not easy for me to write because of tremors and spasms so a lot easier for my disabilities. My iPhone is beside me at all times for emergencies as when at home am often left for long periods of time with items beside me but this easy to use to raise alarm, has voice control which even works with my whispery voice as well as speed dial etc. Do not use house phone. So yes when I'm out I look fab and for a very short time I feel NORMAL AND FAB!
When I return home I am changed and put back to bed and suffer for weeks but worth it to have a little normality, dignity and quality of life.
And yeah I do also own 2 50" TV's, what of it? They were bought before I became ill not with my benefits! Because I am severely ill with an illness you cannot see and I have previously worked hard for and still like nice things, does that make me a scrounger? No, I don't think so. I want to have the same rights as an able bodied healthy person. I want to go out not hide away in case I'm called a cheat or scrounger. I want to wear and use my best things to make me feel good because little else in my life does. My Xmas/birthday/mothers day etc gifts are always vouchers for my favourite shops or lovely clothes or handbags etc so on the odd occasion I can bear the pain og going out I can try and feel and look my best as my kids want me to feel special. But go on people judge me all you like, you are not in my situation. Too many people are jumping to conclusions that people in receipt of benefits are living the life of Riley because of what they own. Just stop and think, they could have received a gift, owned it prior to being ill or even more insane be paying it up out of a catalogue/shop being allowed to charge ridiculous amounts of interest because of only being able to afford to pay weekly for something. Tell me, when was the last time you saw anything but flatscreen TVs in the shop? SO PLEASE EVERYONE, DO NOT JUDGE OTHERS AS YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THEM.

SunnySusie

I haven't read the whole thread but one thing I haven't noticed is any chat of entrepreneurship?

If people "want to work", and are able to (OP states he voluntarily spends time helping those in need) then I am always curious to know what is stopping them.

I earned about £8k last year by doing extra work at home, no one gave me the work, I just did it! This was on top of my day job, and being a parent! I won't go into the detail as there are many threads here on MSE about earning extra income. My point is that if you are really serious, get out there and create work!

I hate writing posts like this because it will inevitably sound judgemental and this is a complex issue - especially when a level of disability is involved. But this is something I can't help thinking whenever I see a fit and able person in a documentary expecting the government to go create a job for them.

alban_2

Just a few points:
I recently read a Benefits Expenditure analysis by a consultant in public health at Liverpool Uni (so he should know!). The welfare bill has increased by £Bs dramatically over 10 years actually as a result of the State Pension being paid to the greater nos of pensionable people (the affluent pensioners who live longer - the sick & poor who die younger save the Gov money!) whilst actual Benefits payments to the poorest have decreased somewhat over the same period. But we can't stigmatise pensioners or they'll vote the Gov out! So go for the weak and the sick. (I know they're increasing the pensionable age too - should have foreseen the demographics ages ago but not politically expedient to act on it). The lie is that the country is being bankrupted by Benefit's claimants - no it's Pensioners and the Banks!

Are there abuses? Yes. Is there a culture of claiming in some places? Yes. Fine, target them - the young and the well to get them into work (jobs tho'?).
But the whole approach around ESA has become 'you're guilty of malingering until you prove yourself sick'. Hoops that get narrower with every change in the legislation and designed to make it very difficult - no proper global assessment at all (except at Appeal). It's approaching the ethic, if not the standard, of the workhouse - make it so bad only those made destitute and desperate will apply.

Those who cheat the system of £10,000s are career criminals not ordinary claimants.

It's great we live in a society that has welfare - surely a mark of a civilised and humane culture? I'm grateful now that I need it.
'National Insurance' is not charity though - most have made regular premium payments towards the scheme as with any insurance. However the goalposts have been moved. Whoever heard of an Insurance Co saying - "Oh we now think you've too much in the way of savings (i.e. the price of a medium family car) so we're not paying out despite the premiums paid" as the DWP has now done with ESA? Should a sickness benefit be means-tested according to savings (income a different thing) when pensions aren't?

When you're well you really have no idea what it's like to be chronically ill and dependent - I know, I became ill later in life. It is utterly humiliating and for the majority nothing like some Shangri-La. They long for the world of work and having meaning and money.
The system is extremely tight now as changes have been made for some years now. It is difficult to get ESA and DLA from a sceptical and 'out to get you' DWP. It feels like harassment - and all inspired by a desire for profit.
It's a scandal that Atos fail lots of people later found to qualify for ESA on Appeal (40% reinstated!). But they get a bonus for getting someone off ESA so why not fail them? - no skin off their noses...but distress++ to the claimant.
How much money is spent with all the pointless bureaucracy?
Stop the slandering of the disabled (and remember you might not be the best judge of who is truly disabled - appearances are deceptive) .

Flyboy152

tonymint wrote: »

He seems to have a lot of skills.Hope someone gives him a start/Job.

Like who?
.

qetu1357

This is not a comment on Ross's case study..........

I thought this was an interesting line on the original email

"and the system abuses others by failing to make work pay"

So what should this abusive system do?

Pay people more or pay less benefits?

Of course some people on benefits have it tough, but some on benefits have it nice and some on benefits are on benefits because of their own fault.

What is the biggest wrong is people getting paid less than they would on benefits. The only answer, sadly, is to increase benefits for those who work (to add to their pay) and reduce benefits for those who don't - excluding those who really can't.

Otherwise the situation will continue and will get worse.

Flyboy152

krisskross wrote: »

I expect the main problem with the man in the article is the one we see so many times on these boards. People tend to only count the money they get in their hand and forget about the rent and council tax they don't have to pay.

Also forgotten will be the free school dinners, free prescriptions etc.

Assuming he has his rent and council tax paid then he has £1000 a month to live on, which is well doable.

You try providing food, clothes, energy, transportation and everything else, for a family of four, on just over nine hundred pounds a month.

BarbaBright

Yup, yup, SunnySusie, and I set up a small business under a Gov't scheme for disabled people offering "advice" and I'm still paying off the debt. The "advisor" bailed as soon as I was too unwell to manage 16 hours a week. That disabled? You don't qualify for any advice anymore. So, I'm lumped with a debt I'm trying to bring down by working when I can. Which is about 4 hours a week. Before anyone jumps on their high horse, that's called "permitted work" - it's what disabled people are allowed to earn before losing benefits, and intended to be a bridge back to work. If and when.

Please can non-disabled get three things straight? Because all of us crips out here would really appreciate it if you could just get the facts down.

1) DLA isn't an "out of work" benefit. You can earn £100,000 and still get DLA, and it's not a cheat of any kind. David Cameron claimed full DLA for his son, despite being a millionaire. It's money to cover the extra costs (transport, heating, equipment, carers, adaptations) of being disabled. 'K? So, you can work and get DLA. No scandal. Move along please, nothing to see here.

2) Almost nobody gets £26,000 a year. That figure was introduced by the Coalition to help sway public opinion in favour of the cuts to the Welfare system. MOST OF THE CUTS affect much smaller benefits considered lifelines to cancer patients, parents with severely disabled children, people stuck in care homes and so on. It's the 'little' cuts we're most worried about, because they are to the benefits that keep the wolf from the door. I don't know anyone who gets £26,000 and I actually agree with the cap. Just not the cuts to benefits that force people to choose between food and heating.

3) I have a little straw poll going. I ask everyone I can what they think the rate of disability benefit fraud is. Go on, have a go. See if you get it right. I ask shopkeepers, taxi drivers, my neighbours, people online, all sorts of people. Most say: "about 20%" (go on, you were thinking that too, weren't you?) Do you know what the answer is? God's honest truth? It's Zero Point Five Percent. That's right. HALF a percent. No, I didn't make it up! Here it is in the DWP's own words: *I'm not allowed to post a link, but if you Google this, you'll find the relevant PDF: fraud and error in the benefit system 2010 2011 estimates PDF

Still think all people on disability benefits are scroungers?

One more question. If a member of your own family became disabled, would you immediately think they were doing it for the benefits? Food for thought.

Flyboy152

Doom_and_Gloom wrote: »

I'm not here to bash - I get DLA (getting HRM and MRC is a bit over 5K a year on it's own for me) and my partner and I get LHA, CTB so am on benefits myself * - however 11k for 2 adults and 2 children? I don't think so somehow.

IB - over 3.5k/year
CB - over 1.5k/year
CTC
CTB - over 1k/year
DLA - at least just over 1k/year
IS
HB/LHA

Of the ones I know for sure it equals over 7k at least as DLA could be higher. Someone has stated that CTB is over 5k = over 12k! That isn't taking into account HB, IS (possible in this situation I believe) and possibly CA (and if that was the case DLA would be higher as only possible to get it on MRC or HRC).

I'm not going to say it is easy on benefits as it isn't but to say they have only just over 11k coming in when it is obvious they don't isn't on.

*partner works so we are not 100% reliant on benefits - we wish we didn't have to claim what we do. I also say how much we get without underestimating as I watch all transactions in and out of my account and know what we get for CTB.

Council tax at five thousand pounds a year? I really think someone needs to have a reality check.

davholla

irishingrid wrote: »

Does anybody ever ask themselves what people on benefits do with their money? Unless they are real fraudsters, they spend their benefits on utilities, local shops, supermarkets, transport etc..
Something very like the subsidising industries. As long as they are spending it in this country I don't have a problem. Keeps those of us with a job, in work.

I have a problem if they spend their housing benefit renting a house I can not afford to live in.

If they didn't have so much then maybe I could afford that house!!!