Help with filing Ltd company accounts

MrNiceGuy_007

Hi All

I have to file my first company accounts by the 10th of March which shouldn’t be too hard. I have already started with the software which I downloaded from HMRC.

I don’t want to pay loads of Corporation Tax and I was wondering can I file a longer then twelve month accounts.

Company was incorporated 01/06/2010

Profit between 01/06/2010-31/05/2011 was £20624.86

we have had a bad 6 months so we have lost quite a large amount.

Loss between 01/06/2011-30/12/2011 was -£14954.83

Total Profit between 01/06/2010 - 30/12/2011 was £5670.30

I don’t want (can’t afford) to pay corporation tax on the £20k

How do I/can I show this in the accounts? and pay CT on the £5K

Thanks in anticipation

chrismac1

Corporation Tax is very strict compared to "normal stuff". If you find any of what follows tricky or at all challenging I advise getting them done properly for at least year 1, you can always follow their stuff for year 2.

1. Companies House will have given you 30 June as your year-end. You should make up your accounts to 30 June 2011.
2. Naturally HMRC make no allowances for this. They require a corporation tax return for no longer than a 12 month period.
3. I usually deal with this farce by filing a nil CT return to 30 June 2010, then a full year - equal to the Companies House accounts - for 30 June 11.
4. You are also required to attach the accounts in IXBRLi format. My Taxcalc software copes well with this. You'd hope the HMRC software would too - they dreamt the blooming thing up! - but I would not bet on this. So set 28 Feb as your target date to elave time to sort out any glitches with either Companies House or CT filing.
5. Probably nothing you can do for now about the loss, if you file a full year loss to 30 June 12 - the earliest you can file this is about 10 October due to rubbish HMRC database - you can then claim Section 393 relief against the 2011 profit and get a CT refund.
6. It might be worth posting up something about the nature of your losses, when they started arising and for what. The reason for this is that under International Accounting Standards some of this may - and potentially MUST - be taken into the 2010 accounts.

I think this whole little lot is worth at least a chat with a qualified accountant. Note if you don't file on time the combined fines are at least £250. Your post suggests you may not be aware of the Companies Act requirements - if you are, let me try you on these:

1. What deferred tax is in your accounts?
2. What is the policy note on revenue recognition within your accounts?
3. What is the related party / controlling party note in your accounts?

If the answer to any of the above is "oooh errr" then you should have concerns. If "oooh errr" is the answer to all 3, in my view you definitely need professional help.

pjclar02

Hello there

I think you hit the nail on the head with your original post. If you extend the year end to 30 November 2011, then you will be able to take advantage of the majority of the losses that you incurred post 31 May 2011, without having to wait to take advantage of loss carry-back relief.

Hope this helps

chrismac1

That is potentially worth a try but if so you'll need to get your skates on and tell both Companies House and HMRC that you plan to change the company reference date. Whether your "profit" figure of 20,625 has been calculated in accordance with UK GAAP (or IAS) and the FRSSE is worth exploring first - because if that in itself is over-stated then messing with the reference date is a bit of admin. hassle you can do without if it's going to solve a problem you may not actually have.

MrNiceGuy_007

I hate HMRC!!!! always money in advance for a short term to gain interest.

The software automatically puts in the dates which are not able to be edited, so I am actually doing a 13 month return.
01/06/10-30/06/11

I’m going to work through the boxes then print off a final copy and have an accountant look over it. All data is up to date and in order as regards to the book keeping etc. We use QuickBooks Pro 2012 which will let you export in a variety of formats not sure about IXBRLi though. There will be something on the web if needed for IXBRLi ,it’s not really a concern to me.
The software from HMRC lets you view sample accounts which I’m just reading through at the moment. There are sections about the questions you have just quoted on the sample accounts. As to the answers, I understand the meaning of them but I haven’t got that far yet.
I’m totally taking on board what you are saying and I think with a mixture of everyone’s help over the next week I can have this bashed out.
[FONT=&quot]Thank you[/FONT]

pjclar02

jamesb1983 wrote: »

The software automatically puts in the dates which are not able to be edited, so I am actually doing a 13 month return.
01/06/10-30/06/11

I'm not familiar with the HMRC online tool as I use my own software, however, I suspect if you lengthen the year end to 30 November 2011, and notify HMRC that this is what you are doing then they will update their records and you should then have the option of producing the two returns necessary to cover the 18 month period (as opposed to the current 13 month period).

This can all be turned around quite quickly as you can hopefully extend the year end online with Companies House, and then call HMRC to notify them. So the dates on the HMRC site should be updated within 7-10 days I would expect. However someone who uses the HMRC site regularly may correct me if I am wrong on this point.

Inputting the data into the HMRC site, I believe, automatically puts the data into iXBRL format for you so you have nothing to worry about on that score unless your accounts and return are too complex for the online tool to cope with (which I have come across a number of times on another forum).

Hope this helps!

MrNiceGuy_007

pjclar02 wrote: »

I'm not familiar with the HMRC online tool as I use my own software, however, I suspect if you lengthen the year end to 30 November 2011, and notify HMRC that this is what you are doing then they will update their records and you should then have the option of producing the two returns necessary to cover the 18 month period (as opposed to the current 13 month period).

This can all be turned around quite quickly as you can hopefully extend the year end online with Companies House, and then call HMRC to notify them. So the dates on the HMRC site should be updated within 7-10 days I would expect. However someone who uses the HMRC site regularly may correct me if I am wrong on this point.

Inputting the data into the HMRC site, I believe, automatically puts the data into iXBRL format for you so you have nothing to worry about on that score unless your accounts and return are too complex for the online tool to cope with (which I have come across a number of times on another forum).

Hope this helps!

Yes that does help, I will do this Monday first job and post on here what they say.

Cheers

MrNiceGuy_007

Next Question

Statutory Accounts Notes Section

Transactions with directors? I assume this is money loaned from the company to a director or shareholder.
(boxes AC304 through AC309)

How do I show money put into the company from the director?
(boxes ????? through ?????)
Would this be a liability?

MrNiceGuy_007

jamesb1983 wrote: »

Next Question

Statutory Accounts Notes Section

Transactions with directors? I assume this is money loaned from the company to a director or shareholder.
(boxes AC304 through AC309)

How do I show money put into the company from the director?
(boxes ????? through ?????)
Would this be a liability?

Scrap that last question, the first section is the Compaines House return. I didnt realise there two returns to complete.

1. One to Compaines House (boxes with AC???)
2. One to HMRC (boxes with CP???)

I can also select my own accounting period in the section that goes to HMRC. This can be a max of 18 months past the start of the company accounts.

chrismac1

I realise you're probably trying to save on fees but in my view you'll end up regretting this. I have no idea how the HMRC database works but if I was programming it an 18 month period filed close to the deadline by a DIY submission would be near the top of my list for an enquiry.

Yes, you have to file abbreviated accounts with Companies House as well as corporation tax returns. Personally I file these simultaneously just in case something on one of the returns causes me to reflect and want to adjust the accounts in some way - OK this happens less than 5% of the time but it happens.

Then I press the submit buttons more or less at the same time, one to Co Ho and one to HMRC.

MrNiceGuy_007

Just to update this thread I have decided to have an accountant to look over the accounts, prepare and submit.
Once a pro has sorted everything I will have a better understanding of how to do it myself next time, however for only £299 is it worth it??? Maybe not!!


Thanks to all for advice.