Greece bailout: Coalition fail to agree cuts

wellused

I agree the Greek people are being sacrificed for the sake of the Euro the problem is that after the Greeks it could be someone else, if Greece collapse it could become very unstable indeed both socially and politically this is not good news for anyone.

Mrs_Bones

ILW wrote: »

Does it matter? If there is no money and nobody will lend to you, there are very few options anyway.

Yes I'd say it matters. It will matter if everything that is being agreed now is then torn up by who ever is in charge of the next government. The EU and Germany can demand as many written assurances as they like, even have things written in to law but unless they are planning to invade Greece and take over by force they still don't have total control over what the next Greece government may do. They could tear up any agreements or get rid of any such laws.

The money going to Greece isn't going to help the country, but is being returned to Europe to the banks to pay interest. The ECB is now one of Greece's biggest creditors, it's no wonder that they don't want them to default. Though quite why they think they have more of a legal right to get all their money back compared to the private lenders who are being forced to take a haircut I don't quite understand.

Greece is up that certain creek with out a paddle what ever it does. If it tries to stay in the Euro, accept all the measures the EU says it must, it still doubtful whether it will work, at the very least it will take decades. If it defaults and devalues then it's at rock bottom, and it will still need the IMF. Yet from the rock bottom, you always have the option to build up again. Staying with the Euro just keeps them in quicksand with the ever present danger they'll sink anyway.

Defaulting for Greece is now the lesser of two evils, but for the EU it would be the worst. Those in charge of Greece are now having to choose who they are working for, their own country or the EU.

Graham_Devon

Mrs_Bones wrote: »

Defaulting for Greece is now the lesser of two evils, but for the EU it would be the worst. Those in charge of Greece are now having to choose who they are working for, their own country or the EU.

This just about sums it up.

At present, I think we are fully aware of who those with a say are working for. Considering some of those with a say have been sent in by the EU themselves.

cotleigh

I hope we have a chaotic collapse of the whole rotten structure soon, then hopefully something better can be built from the wreckage. All this silly imaginary funny-money being used to "bail out" Greece is just storing up more trouble for the inevitable outcome. They may as well have the crash and get it over with.

BleepinHell

Graham_Devon wrote: »

I've edited. The 48% was the 15-24 year old unemployment.

They could come here.
Theres loads of jobs going begging.
You know the ones us lazy Brits just will not do.
How about benefits. Are ours better? I bet they are.
Why aint they here? It must be the weather

pqrdef

Mrs_Bones wrote: »

Greece is up that certain creek with out a paddle what ever it does.

That depends how far the troika want to continue to escalate what was originally a much smaller problem, before they go into reverse.

What will the police have to do to stop the rioters burning the place down? Are people going to die now?

pqrdef

cotleigh wrote: »

I hope we have a chaotic collapse of the whole rotten structure soon, then hopefully something better can be built from the wreckage.

Better for some, maybe. Chaotic collapse is rarely good for those whose best days are behind them, who were planning to live off the proceeds.

Trouble is though, you'll have to live in fear of the same thing happening again. How will you provide for your own future, knowing that the next generation may also decide that chaotic collapse is a good thing?

Rochdale_Pioneers

You have to watch in wonder at events. Greece needs a bailout from the EU in order to repay money owed to the EU. The EU change the terms of the bailout at the last minute, forcing yet more reparations on Greece. After a weekend of rioting and resignations the bill passes through their parliament. Then the EU say "its still not enough".

And they're right. Its not. First Germany demanded the dissolution of Greece to be replaced by a special commissioner concentrating on repayments first and Greece second. Then the EU demanded that all Greek political parties sign (unconstitutional in Greece) concrete demands that the bailout budget passed cannot be recalled redebated or reversed following the elections. Now we have politicians voting for a bill with tear gas literally in the air inside parliament knowing that at best they will lose their seats in April and at worst will either be lynched by the mob or shot by the junta after the coup.

And this is Greece's future. If they are very lucky their political system holds together and they slowly starve. If they are brave they vote in new politicians to overturn the whole lot and default. Or with both scenarios if they are unlucky the mob launches a full blown revolution and the generals seize power again. However this turns out, the chances of the EU seeing again the money they are about to pay Greece to be repaid the last money they gave them are nil.

gailey_2

Rochdale_Pioneers wrote: »

You have to watch in wonder at events. Greece needs a bailout from the EU in order to repay money owed to the EU. The EU change the terms of the bailout at the last minute, forcing yet more reparations on Greece. After a weekend of rioting and resignations the bill passes through their parliament. Then the EU say "its still not enough".

And they're right. Its not. First Germany demanded the dissolution of Greece to be replaced by a special commissioner concentrating on repayments first and Greece second. Then the EU demanded that all Greek political parties sign (unconstitutional in Greece) concrete demands that the bailout budget passed cannot be recalled redebated or reversed following the elections. Now we have politicians voting for a bill with tear gas literally in the air inside parliament knowing that at best they will lose their seats in April and at worst will either be lynched by the mob or shot by the junta after the coup.

And this is Greece's future. If they are very lucky their political system holds together and they slowly starve. If they are brave they vote in new politicians to overturn the whole lot and default. Or with both scenarios if they are unlucky the mob launches a full blown revolution and the generals seize power again. However this turns out, the chances of the EU seeing again the money they are about to pay Greece to be repaid the last money they gave them are nil.

I remember doing history in school and looking at treaty of versaille and reperations and fact germany had hyperinflations and depression and thinking how unfair it was.

It led to the conditions that meant nazis gained power and started world war 2 .

I do worry they pushing greece too far and the riots were awful and worry for lot of people there. democracy seems to have gone they should have called an election after g pap left who god forbid wanted to hold a greek refendum and give greeks a choice.

if went to peoples vote and said do you want to accept bailout these are the conditions they would say no
not even sure why they would want to be part of eu the way eus treating them looking after own interests not whats right for greece.

They did same in italy installing there man but expect spain and italy to go downhill next.