Employment Tribunal / CMD advise

trialanderror

I was 100% confident before yesterday !!
When I came out of the CMD I felt like I had already lost and was totally bemused by the Judge's actions. He just didn't seem that bothered and maybe that is because he was retiring today (alright for some!!)
This will get passed on to another judge now and he may have a different view, but I will have to wait until the hearing for that.
As for him giving me advise on Volunteers and then when I rung the Tribunal office this morning and they said they didn't have Volunteers I was totally bemused and now I feel I'm back to square one !! Totally confused.
I think I will need a representative now as you say, if I have had my confidence knocked I am not going to come across very good in the actual hearing.

Uncertain

trialanderror wrote: »

Hi,

I have 2 claims, 1 is related to sex discrimination and equal pay and the other is constructive dismissal and like work, which the judge kept referring to as unfair dismissal.

The correct phrase is "constructive unfair dismissal" so he was right.

To be honest, he didn't seem like he had read my ET1 form and digested it as he was confused about some of the points, which when read thoroughly are quite self explanatory.

No disrespect but are they? It is very difficult to make this judgement about something you have written yourself, especially when it is for an unfamiliar audience.

Please don't take this the wrong way but your opening post is FAR from clear so if the ET1 was similar........

I am seriously thinking about retracting the claim and just forgetting about it all !!

Did the judge give any warning about costs, even drop any broad hints? If he thought part of your claim might succeed this is unlikely but you were there and heard what he said.

If not, and you have the energy, you may as well carry on. It will cost the employer quite a lot in legal fees to fight so they may well offer some kind of settlement just to save money.

Less than 3% of constructive unfair dismissal claims are successful so you have an uphill battle there if it goes the distance, particularly without some professional help.

trialanderror

Thanks for your response Uncertain.
With regards to the self explanatory notes, at least 5 other people have read my statement and not said they didn't understand it and I know what you mean about my inital post, I think my frustration may have shown in that, but I don't want to put all the points of my case down in public.

The judge said nothing about costs, no broad hints - nothing !!

I am now thinking about concentrating on the Equal Pay claim rather than the unfair dismissal one, although one point I'd like to mention was that he did say that my hearing for the unfair dismissal would also include "like work" I am presuming this is related to the pay gap / equal pay that I have also raised.

MyUserName_4

trialanderror wrote: »

I was 100% confident before yesterday !!
When I came out of the CMD I felt like I had already lost and was totally bemused by the Judge's actions. He just didn't seem that bothered and maybe that is because he was retiring today (alright for some!!)
This will get passed on to another judge now and he may have a different view, but I will have to wait until the hearing for that.

Sometimes, Judges drop hints at the CMD stage based on how they THINK the case will unfold. However, you should note that this Judge has not yet looked at any of the evidence - In other words, don't worry about it too much. Plus, as someone has already mentioned , he may have just pointed out the statistics of winning a constructive dismissal case.

As for him giving me advise on Volunteers and then when I rung the Tribunal office this morning and they said they didn't have Volunteers I was totally bemused and now I feel I'm back to square one !! Totally confused.

Maybe he was talking about a law centre? or the Citizen's Advice Bureau? You're not back to square one, your case is still proceeding.

I think I will need a representative now as you say, if I have had my confidence knocked I am not going to come across very good in the actual hearing.

I would urge caution about getting a legal rep, if you end up paying for this yourself, as you could end up out of pocket and this may be a further cause of distress. Take some time to chill out and re-focus. Everyone who has gone through an Employment Tribunal has probably felt the same way as you at some stage or other. Litigation is not supposed to be pleasant. HR may be laughing now, but they are a long way from being in the clear.

As someone else has suggested I would take another look at your ET1, try to think about how your facts fit the legal definition of your claims. Other people may have read your ET1 and told you it makes sense regarding what has actually happened, but perhaps the 5 people who read your ET1 are friends / family in which case they probably also had some idea of what went on, and hence it was quite easy for them to fill in the gaps for themselves. For a claim to succeed, you must also meet the legal definition.

MyUserName_4

I have 2 claims, 1 is related to sex discrimination and equal pay and the other is constructive dismissal and like work

I don't understand why / how you've divided your claims into two like this. You mean you were doing like work and are therefore claiming equal pay with your comparators?

Plus, why are your SDA/ Equal pay claims and constructive dismissal being treated separately? Surely, the issues are likely to overlap. Are you sure that the constructive dismissal case in the summer is not a PHR?

MyUserName_4

The Judge also commented at the end of the CMD that he was retiring tomorrow so another judge would be taking this case on and there could be changes ???? I'm sorry, but I don't understand why they would give this guy the case in the first place, I honestly think he was a "stand in" as the original judge was still in a Tribunal and they probably didn't want to postpone my CMD at such short notice.

Do not worry about this. I think you may be mistaken and will find that dedicated Judge has not been appointed to your case. It is possible to have a different Judge for every CMD you attend and a different Judge again at the final hearing.

SarEl

It strikes me that the judge was actually giving you "fair warning ".- you have to prove your case on these claims, you will have a very high standard of evidence to achieve, and will probably struggle to meet it, and almost certainly without representation. I would read this as a suggestion to both parties to settle -and a hint that you should not get too ambitious about figures.

trialanderror

MyUserName wrote: »

I don't understand why / how you've divided your claims into two like this. You mean you were doing like work and are therefore claiming equal pay with your comparators?

Plus, why are your SDA/ Equal pay claims and constructive dismissal being treated separately? Surely, the issues are likely to overlap. Are you sure that the constructive dismissal case in the summer is not a PHR?

Thanks for all your comments "my user name" just to clarify the situation with the 2 claims, it was actually the judge that suggested this and put it forward, he actually added the "like work" suggestion to the constructive dismissal case (I didn't understand why he did this) and then said the Equal Pay would be a separate claim. But he did state it can take many hearings, using independant experts and can take up to 18 months !! Sounds Exhausting.

When he said he was retiring he did make a comment about another Judge changing things around, so I am preparing myself for that now.

Thank you for your help, it is much appreciated.