can this thread be deleted please

linuxuk44

post deleted

COOLTRIKERCHICK

you knew the salary/wages before you started.... be gratefull you have a job......this could seriously back fire on you,

if you think you are being under paid, then i suggest you go and find a job that pays the right money for you... dont hold your breath though as i should imagine there will be umpteen applications along side yours for them to choose from

Lomcevak

Small company or big?

One of the best 'softly, softly' approaches to this is to talk about it in terms of promotion, rather than directly about salary - that's generally safe. If you want to talk directly about money then asking for £6k is unlikely to work in the current environment, but a discussion about bringing your salary up to market rate over a number of years might. Don't threaten 'leaving if I don't get a raise', the risk is that might mark you as someone who is expected to leave, so they won't put any effort into keeping you.

If you really want to go down the route of threatening to leave and/or demanding a big raise now then have a new job lined up first, don't assume you could find one at short notice. It is by far the best way to get a large raise though, although trying to use it more than once is likely to result in being offered the door...

acs_2

linuxuk44 wrote: »

Hi all,
I am thinking of having a meeting with my manager and discuss salary increase. How i am planning to do it is by constructivly explaining my skills and then my education/backgroud/experience.
after this explain what has improved since i have started in the place.


following that mention that I would like to review the salary and explain why i am currently being paid under the normal rate.
the increase is a big jump of around 6-8k but it is simply because the underpay and i want to get the normal pay

I also plan to take some jobs description and show the norm rate for my job.

if it didn't work out I am ready to leave but want to get guidence on here and how you think i could put the words nicely together and try to negotiate as opposed to leave

thanks

Correct me if im wrong, but this is my take on your current situation...

It appears to me that you took a role with a specific job description and a salary X. Through going about your job you have inadvertently proven to your employer that you are capable of carrying out duties that are beyond your job description and currently salary. Now you want the employer to promote you to a role that comes with a higher salary...and why shouldn’t you?


However, the harsh reality is, your employer holds all the cards due to the current financial climate. It is quite common for people to be carrying out a role that is above their pay scale and this happens because there are plenty of other people who are desperate for work and who would be happy to do what you do, for the money you get paid.



Subsequently, if you go asking for a raise / promotion, you are unlikely to get it because of the aforementioned. Dependent upon how much your employer values you, they may give you £500-£1000 wage increase as a good will gesture but not the 6-8k you are after....If they thought you were worth an extra 6-8k a year, they’d of acted a while ago! And unless you are using a skill to do the job that nobody else a) has and b) can get over night, your demands are unlikely to be met.



If I were you, id be looking for another job, get yourself a written job offer, complete with remuneration package and then speak, respectfully and calmly, to your boss, present the offer you’ve had and ask what they can do to keep you. That way you, the employee, get what you want either way...


Best of luck. Let us all know how you get on...

londoner01

I agree with previous posters that softly softly is better and that you shouldn't expect big results.

I had to reapply for an "enhanced" version of my job this year, with colleagues as well, to bring us all in on a permanent contract. At the same time, the pay bands for the jobs were modified so that basically, while it is an increase on my fixed-term contract wage, I am now being paid less than people who had the less demanding version of the job in pre-recession time. But what ca you do about it? I did raise the issue and say that I thought the pay cut had been a bit arbitrary and my colleagues said something to that extent too. We didn't get a raise of course but we got to get the job title change to something more appropriate and we got some professional development out of it. Not a lot but in the current climate it is reassurance that our employer does care about us, just can't pay us quite the amount we wish for.

lessonlearned

You don't say what your job is and what kind of industry you are in so it is impossible to give you proper advice as to how to plan your strategy,

However, as a general rule for most pay rises, bonuses etc you would have to be able to give your employers irrefutable evidence of how much "added value" your efforts have produced. When asking for more money you have to be able to demonstrate that you are worth what you're are asking for.

Have you increased your company's revenue, have you bought in extra business, or, failing that, have you saved them shed loads of money by solving a problem.

Even though what you actually do for a living may seem intangible - you must find a way of showing how your contribution has produced a "measurable and quantifiable result" - i.e. it has to have a monetary value.

To say that you have worked hard is to just too vague and fluffy. To say that you have this and that qualification is frankly meaningless.

In order to get the financial rewards you want you must talk in terms of your actions=added value=money. It's a simple business equation.

If by your efforts you have increased that monetary value then you can justifiably argue for a pay rise.

To put it simply your argument has to be that your contribution has either helped increase your company's income or profitability or has saved them money.

By all means start your negotiations at £8K but do be realistic and be prepared to compromise.

Given the current economic climate and attendant pay restrictions it might be better to ask for a one off bonus or some form of commission. If there is simply no money in the pot then ask for something else instead, either extra paid holiday or better still further training and development.

That way you get the reward for the value you have added but your employers have not locked themselves into a pay agreement that they may not be able to afford over the long term. Times are hard.

I assure you that this way of presenting your request can work but only if you can provide clear irrefutable evidence that what you are saying is true. So before you get to the negotiating table make sure you have the facts and figures to back your argument.

Good luck.

BTW - I once sold £3.5m worth of property in a 12 week period. I knew my boss wouldn't commit to an annual pay rise so I asked for a substantial bonus. I went in high, we haggled and I got half of what I asked for - which of course was the figure I had in mind all along. Win-win.

linuxuk44

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Zelazny

If you're currently doing the job for your current salary, then there's no way they're going to give you a £6k rise - not least because if you were willing to do it, they can find someone else who is willing to do it in your place.

£1-2k might be doable, as it would probably cost them about that much to recruit and train someone to replace you.

Best way to get more money, if you really think that you're currently on less than the going rate is to get another job.

lessonlearned

linuxuk44 wrote: »

Thanks to all for your replies.

I do agree with almost all of the comments.


I accepted the job as I liked the duties and the job description but mentioned that we could negotiate the salary in few month after they have seen the performance.

any other way to get around this cleverly ?

thanks again to all for all comments

You are still being fluffy.

You must clearly, objectively, mathematically demonstrate exactly how your performance has benefitted your employer. It's what they understand.

Do you understand a Profit and Loss statement. That's how it works.

Whether it's services or goods, private or public sector - the balance sheet is everything.

You are coming at your negotiations feeling hurt, aggrieved and feeling that somehow you are being hard done by.

That is not the way to win a pay rise.

Take your feelings out of the equation.

Be objective, businesslike, think with your head. Do the maths, get your facts straight.

If there simply is no more money in the pot, get over it. Ask for something else, something that doesn't cost them money.

Training can cost money, it can also be done very cheaply.

If they can't afford training schemes or courses ask your boss to mentor you. Read up on mentoring - it works.

I have a number of mentors - some financial, some have other areas of expertise. They give advice and point me in the right direction. They don't charge me - I try to find other ways of helping them and and rewarding them for their time and generosity.

If you enjoy your work and don't want (or in the current climate can't find another job) get a second income stream, even if it's just a couple of nights working in a bar or restaurant.

Be positive and pro-active, don't just let your grievances sap your energy and resolve.

InsideInsurance

I think things will change massively depending on if you are talking small business or a large corporation. If it is the former then others advice here is probably reasonable though of cause demonstrating direct value added if your a compliance manager for an insurance company is more challenging than if you are a sales man.

For larger companies there tends to be a much more formal salary review process and to go outside of it is challenging if not impossible.

Saying you want an £8k payrise is not really enough as that could be a 50% increase or a 0.5% increase and both absolute and relativity is important when judging the scale of your ask. Whatever the case may be I will always maintain it is much quicker to increase salary by changing employer than my moving up or trying to negotiate.

To negotiate a higher sum you will need to be able to demonstrate you are over performing for your grade. If you are paid average or below for your company for your role then it is simpler as you simply need to show how you are better than all your colleagues and therefore should be paid more than them (or equal if your pay is low). If you are paid generously by your companies standard already then it becomes more difficult as you need to prove the market is higher without them turning round and telling you to apply for the roles you bring in as evidence.