Who Employed Me ?

Psychofly

Hi, I would appreciate any advice or guidance anyone can give me here. I have an issue with my past employer which I've mentioned before so I'll be brief. I left my last job last September for a new job. The old company then ceased trading. The 2 owners then went personally bankrupt. My final months salary was not paid. Went to an employment tribunal and got a successful ruling.
Here's the issue though. The judge has written asking if I'm satisfied that the judgement is lodged against the correct respondant and I'm getting more and more sure that it's not.
The problem is there is a company THD Limited that is registered with Companies House and is dormant. I believe it's been dormant and has had nothing in the accounts since around 2006. I was employed in November 2009. This company has a proposal to strike off at Companies House and isn't insolvent meaning if THD Limited employed me I can't get an RPO payment from the National Insurance Fund. My contract of employment states I'm employed by THD (note NO Limited) and there is no company registration number on it. Since THD Limited has had nothing in it's accounts and has been dormant since 2006 they obviously haven't been paying my salary so the money has come from elsewhere. The entry on my bank statement simply shows the company name (NO Limited). Also the entire time I worked there no correspondance that the company issued had any mention of a company number, the website never showed a company number (this is now offline after it ceased trading) and having seen invoices issued by the company there is no company registration number on these either.
The 2 owners are listed on the Register of Invsolvencies on the Account In Bankruptcy webstite as <NAME> <Home Address> previously t/a THD, <Company Address>. The <Company Address> is the actual premises I worked at and is the address stated on my contract of employment however the address listed against the Limited company at Companies House is completely different. Also note that the previously t/a company name also does NOT include Limited.
My feeling is that I was actually employed by the company which was operating as a partnership NOT as a limited company which would mean the award has been given against the wrong respondants. How can I confirm exactly who employed me given that the 2 ex-owners will not respond to any of my attempts to contact them ? If it was indeed a partnership and not the limited company who employed me and the employment Judge adjusts the ruling to cover this, can I claim from the National Insurance Fund under these circumstances ? As it stands I'm unable to since the award is against the Limited company which is NOT insolvent. I'm unsure whether payments from the National Insurance Fund only cover limited companies or whether they would be able to help if I was employed by the partnership.
I'm about £2000 out of pocket here and don't want to leave anything out in my attempts to reclaim what I'm owed but I think I'm getting to the point where there is simply no chance whatsoever of getting any money. Any advice or guidance would be greatly appreciated.
I should also add that I've talked to Citizen's Advice who were little help, the person I spoke to went and Googled it and came back with 'claim an RPO payment from the National Insurance Fund' which I've already confirmed isn't possible with the situation as it is now.
Thanks for your time in reading this.

agrinnall

What do your payslips/P60s say about who employed you?

cr1mson

Are you sure that THD Ltd are anything to do with it? For instance is the field of business correct? Is address anywhere close? etc I would be tempted to get some more information on THD like who were the directors.

C

Jarndyce

Well either you were employed by the company which is not insolvent and you can claim from them, or you claim from the bankrupt individuals who made up the patrnership.

if the former, you can go to a County Court (small claims court) to enforce the ET ruling. If the latter, I expect you will have to whistle for it.

I'm confused as the Employment Judge had the right to determine who was the legal employer and appears either not to have done so, or has done so and is now asking you if you think they were right! I'm not sure whether the Judge could have joined the individuals to the judgement so that both entities were covered - you could just ring the ET and ask.

I think the only way of you getting all your money appears to be by pursuing the limited company. I would send a letter before action to them and then go down the small claims route. In the meantime, if you can have the individual partners joined to the judgement, then ask that they do that, but not at the expense of removing the limited company from it.

cr1mson

OK having had a little google it looks like THD Ltd used to be known as Trio Hire Direct Ltd and their assets were taken over by NRG in 2007.

http://ripassetseu.s3.amazonaws.com/www.riversidetruckrental.com/_files/documents/may_08/rs__1212077445_Customer_Newsletter_Issue_1_.pdf

Not sure if that helps or hinders?

C

Psychofly

Thanks for the quick replies.

I have no P60 since the company ceased trading before issuing it. I'm 99% sure the payslips just show THD, I'd need to double check this when I get home though but I'm almost positive.
The THD Limited company is definitely the correct one, the address listed is their accountants I think. I believe they started the company with one of these 'off the shelf' company packs since the original company name is listed as NEWCO then it changes almost immediately to THD Limited. The directors of this company and also of another company are the 2 owners. I believe the proposal to strike off the companies stems from the fact both are now bankrupt and are no longer allowed to hold directorships. The other company name is <SURNAME> Limited, the surname of the 2 directors/owners who are husband and wife. Again this other company is dormant and has been for a long time. The husband was also a director of the local Chamber of Commerce and has since resigned his directorship.
Sorry I just noticed there were a couple of posts while I was writing this one. THD Limited wasn't actually the name of the company, I just didn't want to list the full name here. Thanks for the effort though in digging up the details on THD. I didn't think the full name would help much and since it links to the personal details of the owners I thought I'd be nice and not put it here.

agrinnall

Psychofly wrote: »

I have no P60 since the company ceased trading before issuing it. I'm 99% sure the payslips just show THD, I'd need to double check this when I get home though but I'm almost positive.

If I read your first post correctly you were employed there from November 2009 to September 2011, so you should have had 2 P60s in that time, in May 2010 and May 2011.

Psychofly

Sorry I'm getting P60 and P45 confused. I worked there from November 09 to September 10 so I have one P60. I'll have a look at that when I get home. Like I said though I'm virtually certain that it's THD without the Limited part.

agrinnall

Hopefully the P60 will help you, but if you left in September 2010, well over a year ago, I think you may be pushing your luck to get anything now.

Psychofly

What is wrong with me today !?!?!? Sorry I'm really tired.. everything I type is wrong ! It was November 10 to September 11 !! I think I need the weekend to hurry up !

Psychofly

Just an update on this story and looking for a little more advice if possible please ?
I'm now convinced I was employed by the partnership and not the limited company and the Employment Tribunal is now looking at issuing a new judgement against the partnership which has supposedly ceased trading. However I now have in my possession an email forwarded from an old customer which shows the partnership is trading again, with a new phone number but the same email addresses using the same company name. The 2 owners are bankrupt and I know they aren't allowed to have any hand in running a business without court permission. I also have evidence he's been working cash in hand for some of the old customers which I have informed HMRC about. If the company is now trading again what are the next steps in order to try and retrieve my unpaid wages ? Am I still at the point where my only form of recourse is to get a sheriff officers involved ? Remember this is under Scottish law which I know does differ slightly from English law. What are the chances realistically of recouping this money ? I didn't think small claims courts had much in the way of power and I don't want to end up with a bill for sheriff officers services along with an order for them to pay up but still with no way of making sure I get the money. Can they effectively just ignore that order too ?