AVIVA - Reduced endowment payout

dunstonh

And so the estimate would have made some kind of sense. If they don't move out of market, the estimate isn't worth sending in the first place? Incidently, I don't recall a market crash of 3.5% in January. However it's dressed, these examples just reinforce the public perception that the industry is loaded against the investor.

Gilts are down about 6% over Dec/Jan. Stockmarket fell 20% in August. WP funds lag.

I am tempted to say the way you've now put down the OP and now ib111 in this thread is the real disgrace, dunstonh.

The OP was rude and how you interpret my response to ib111 as putting them down is just crazy.

I think you might admit that you are a chancer - you ride the wind - you take no risks. I once thought you might be the best of a bad bunch, but the fact is I have perished that thought as I also know about wind. Perhaps incorrectly, I read between the thousands of lines you have typed into these forums, especially in recent years, that you accept no accountability if investments you take commissions upon fail to perform. You simply blame an ill wind from the convenience of your own shelter?

I am not a commission adviser. Plus, I, like everyone else, has no ability to predict or influence returns in the markets. It is not my role to do so and no IFA has that role.

ow can an endowment be obsolete if it has just reached maturity and is being discussed?

In the same way a car bought 25 years ago is obsolete. Yes it may do a job but it wont do it very well compared to a modern option.

I expect you sold a heap of them?

Some but not many and not one complaint and none after around 1995.

I am afraid with your now frequent tendency to jump on threads like this the way you do, I have now concluded that you know little more than we do about life assurance and investment, apart from the latest fad or device for tempting punters to exchange loadsamoney for your paper. The bigger the better. You lately seem irritated by normal punters. Are you sure it is good for your health?

It is clear from your responses on multiple threads that you prefer to remain ignorant and not understand the issues that occurred (some are the blame of the industry, some the blame of consumers, some no-one could predict). I am quite happy for you to stay ignorant as it will not impact on me in the slightest.

COLOURBOUNCE

I do think the providers and the advisors that sold them, now treat these 'obsolete' policies with contempt. When trying to extract what should be simple information, it's all a bit of an inconvenient irritation to them.

dunstonh

I do think the providers and the advisors that sold them, now treat these 'obsolete' policies with contempt.

Explain contempt? Remember that most tied agents that sold them are long gone and tied agents today probably dont even know how they work. IFAs should know more about but I dont know if you could class it as contempt. Its just a recognition that the product is old and obsolete in most cases and modern options are typically better.

Most insurers cannot wait to see the back of them. Many have sold their legacy books as they dont want them any more. Also, the insurers are limited on what they can say about them as most no longer hold the FSA authorisations to give opinion, advice or comment. That can be frustrating to some people trying to find out information but they cannot act outside of their remit without risk of being fined rather large amounts and the staff members face the sack. They also dont train the staff on the phone like they used to. Many are short term rolling contract workers with very little knowledge and know little more than answering very basic questions and probably know less than you.

jamesmorgan

2sides2everystory wrote: »

The comments the OP made back to Wh05apk were entirely justified. What a totally ridiculous post#2 that was.

I am tempted to say the way you've now put down the OP and now ib111 in this thread is the real disgrace, dunstonh.

I think your reaction to dunstonh seem a little extreme. His comments seem balanced and objective. I have no connection with the financial services industry, but can only comment as a customer. Endowments were set up to try to reflect growth in the asset classes they were invested in - by and large they appear to have done this. It seems amazing to blame endowments that these asset classes have not performed as well as estimated 25 years ago. No-one (whether in the financial services industry or not) can forecast what is going to happen over a 25 year period. You seem to have a very unrealistic view of the expectations of financial services products. If you don't want to take risk then the best option is simply to use a repayment mortgage.

COLOURBOUNCE

They also dont train the staff on the phone like they used to. Many are short term rolling contract workers with very little knowledge and know little more than answering very basic questions and probably know less than you.

Well, letting the least interested or informed people field calls from clients enquiring about their policy, I cannot think of any other word than contempt can you?

dunstonh

Well, letting the least interested or informed people field calls from clients enquiring about their policy, I cannot think of any other word than contempt can you?

The problem is wider than that and reflects society. Training and quality costs money. The average British consumer wants cheap. Something has to give. There are quality options available but that has turned more into a niche market than mainstream which is totally focused on getting to the top of a comparison site price list.

You can mirror that across many different retail areas. Financial product are no different. It isnt contempt. It is just a reflection of society.

To put qualified and informed staff on all the phones would treble the costs at least. Who is going to pay for that?

COLOURBOUNCE

Fair comment. I just hope when my payout comes in a few months, they don't try to tempt me with an offer to re invest with them. It just makes you feel that it's your money, and they really have no idea what is going on with it. Thanks for your time here, it does all make sense, just doesn't fill me with confidence.

COLOURBOUNCE

The comments regarding the telephone staff are fair. I have never dealt with Aviva, but it sounds like they are as bad as my provider CM, and all the others. As raddy59's first post here, I still don't get it. I have no problem with Dunstonh, or the way he makes a living. I would just like to get the information I require from the people I pay on a monthly basis. Clearly, it's not going to happen. I am almost glad it 'aint just me.

COLOURBOUNCE

They presume that it was acceptable to let monkeys paid peanuts loose on the phones in the first place. It never was.

Tell me about it. The desription fair, should be replaced with true. Whatever way it's bent, it should never happen.