Tax penalty for late return

spyrothedragon_2

Don't know if this is the right place to post, but I need advice. I submitted a P35 online last year, 2 weeks before the deadline. A few moments later I got an email from HMRC saying it had been submitted successfully. The exact wording is "The submission for reference xxx was successfully received on xx/xx/xxxx. If this was a test transmission, remember that you still need to send your actual Employer Annual Return using the live transmission in order for it to be processed". IT WAS NOT A TEST! Honestly, I've done this for the previous 6 years with no problems, and I know what I'm doing.
I heard nothing until 4 months later, when HMRC wrote to inform me I owed £400 in penalty payments! My, how we laughed. £100 for each month that I was late with my P35. I sent them their own email as proof, but they keep telling me it was a test which is simply not true. We appealed, and my accountant has written to them to back me up, quoting previous cases and calling HMRC's decision "unfair and absurd", but the appeal has just been rejected. My last resort now is appealing to the Tribunals Service.
I still don't know if I need to resubmit the P35, or if the penalty is increasing every month while HMRC take ages to process the appeal. If it is we're now at £800. Tried calling HMRC to clarify but you end up on hold for ever, hear a message telling you to use the website, then get cut off. No reply to my letter yet either.
HMRC claim that they've no obligation to issue reminders, so once they've sent you an email to say everything has been successfully received, they wait 4 months and hit you with a fine. that's surely a form of theft!
There's no way I'm going to pay one penny in fines for something I'm not guilty of, but the stress on the family is a nightmare, as is the anger building up inside me.
Worst of all, the P35 is for a part-time employee (2 mornings a week) who's total earnings are under the tax threshold, so it's classed as a nil return and there's no tax payable!
Any advice or tales of your experience of the tribunals service will be welcomed. Also, what happens if you refuse to pay a fine?
My accounts are squeaky clean, but if I get stung for this I'll be accepting cash payments in the future.
Thanks, have a good weekend.

chrismac1

You might be interested to know that in a recent case - and I think it was a Tribunal so not legally binding but can't be sure, will try and find a link for you - the whole matter of HMRC's cynical "let's wait 4 months so that it is a £400 fine not a £100 fine" policy was questioned in very stingent terms. I myself had a recent Tribunal case for a client who had - totally unjusitifiably - been hit with £800 fine - two lots of £400 - which was reduced to £156 by HMRC. It went like this:

1. I question the £156 with the officer, saying it should be zero. She says it stands.
2. I appeal upwards. He says it stands.
3. I appeal to the last internal HMRC guy, on this occasion in Belfast. He says it stands. The same drivel from all three of them, this process from step 1 has now lasted 3 to 4 months.
4. I file papers at the Tribunal.
5. TWO WEEKS later - which is moving at the speed of light in HMRC's world - HMRC cave in without filing any papers.

No integrity whatsoever in steps 1 to 3 above. Good luck with your battle, I don't think you'll be needing any though.

soolin

You go tme worried so I thought I would go and check my past records. However my submission notifications don't say anything about a test at all, they say:

Thank you for sending the Self Assessment submission online. The submission for reference xxxxxx was successfully received on xxxx and is being processed. Self Assessment Online is just one of the many online services we offer that can save you time and paperwork. For the latest information on all of our Online Services please visit www.hmrc.gov.uk
The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure Intranet virus scanning service supplied by Cable&Wireless Worldwide in partnership with MessageLabs. (CCTM Certificate Number 2009/09/0052.) On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus free.
Communications via the GSi may be automatically logged, monitored and/or recorded for legal purposes.

chrismac1

Another fact you might live to be aware of from my own client base. HMRC have deleted 4 separate submissions I've made in the past 2 years and then fined the clients £100 for each "non-submission". In all four cases I have had the fines quoshed, and finally - after all the usual finger-pointing and trying to blame everyone else but themselves - someone in HMRC has accepted that they have indeed taken it upon themselves to delete returns submitted by a tax agent on behalf of his client, without at any stage informing either client or agent that this was happening never mind giving a reason.