Turkeys going cheap or rather Atishooo

badmumof1

louised wrote:

I've just realised we had bernard matthews turkey burgers on Wednesday, I needed something easy for tea, they were on BOGOF at tesco....Oh dear my husband has just come into the room feeling all hot "like he's coming down with something" (his words not mine). I wonder if he has made the connection !!! I won't tell him.;)

my hubby had some of those on tuesday
hes been sat up on the curtain pole ever since

deanos

They now beleive infected meat could have entered the food chain

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6349075.stm

mcwarre

Forreal wrote:

Another lesson for producers that its just not worth squeezing that bit extra out your profit by buying dodgy stock!!!

Rather than being ignorant and blaming producers you should find the real cause of this; the supermarkets. They dictate prices which then force the producers to scrimp anyway they can. Just look at what is happening to Dairy Farmers.

If you went to a location which produces meat intensively be it pigs/chickens/turkeys then you would never eat them again. Chickens are usually 8 weks old when killed (classed as chicks but the feed laced with hormones makes them grow at a silly rate which their bones are not able to support). In a so called civilised society what we do to the animals is unacceptable.

BTW I am neither a Veggie nor an animal rights campaigner just aware of what happens to our food.....

babyangel10

outbidder wrote:

Gertybertyangel, if you are a veggie then you're probably used to being pale and sick anyway, no need to wait for epidemics LOL

And before all the veggies get up on their corn boxes, it was a joke...

Well, I'll deffo agree on the pale look! Not often sick though - spesh not from bird flu anyway! LOL

edna_clouds

jane22

Re the cooking temperature, make sure you know the exact rules here for your turkey to be safe (in the very unlikely event it has H5N1 virus in it!!) - you must cook the meat at an INTERNAL temperature of around 170 degrees C. This means you probably need to set your oven to around 185 or so. If you are cooking a whole turkey, it would have to be even higher, because the very inside part of a large bird will not be as hot as the outer parts are.

It is not how cooked it is that makes adifference - you could cook your turkey at like 120 degrees for 2 hours, it'd be done, but it would still potentially have virus in it.

speedyjoe

mcwarre wrote:

Chickens are usually 8 weks old when killed (classed as chicks but the feed laced with hormones makes them grow at a silly rate which their bones are not able to support).

Hormones in food production have been banned in the EU since the mid 1980's and the EU is in constant conflict with the US and Canada over the ban on the import of meat containing synthetic hormones.

The reason broiler chickens grow to maturity so quickly is because they have been selectively bred to do so and are raised in carefully controlled conditions. The rapid rate of growth does lead to problems with lameness and overcrowding.
Unfortunately an EU proposal to improve broiler chicken welfare was blocked by Poland, the Czech Republic, France, Hungary and Slovakia.

quoia

jane22 wrote:

Re the cooking temperature, make sure you know the exact rules here for your turkey to be safe (in the very unlikely event it has H5N1 virus in it!!) - you must cook the meat at an INTERNAL temperature of around 170 degrees C. This means you probably need to set your oven to around 185 or so. If you are cooking a whole turkey, it would have to be even higher, because the very inside part of a large bird will not be as hot as the outer parts are.

It is not how cooked it is that makes adifference - you could cook your turkey at like 120 degrees for 2 hours, it'd be done, but it would still potentially have virus in it.

Sadly most of this is nonsense since it is impossible to cook the meat at 170 deg C whilst ever it contains liquid water since to be hotter than 100 deg C all of it has to be turned into STEAM !. So unless you like turkey biscuits ..........

In addition (just as an aside but somewhat relevant) you do not have to have temperatures anywhere near this high to cook a chicken to make it safe to eat.
Anyone who has seen the top chef Heston Blumenthal should appreciate his skill and reputation and know he is proud owner of the only 3 Michelin star restaurant in the UK. He demonstrated on BBC TV only a few weeks ago how to cook one and the oven temperature NEVER exceeded 60 deg C.
The whole chicken was twice plunged into boiling water for 30 seconds (and then immediately into ice-water to prevent any further cooking from this blanching "surface sterilising" process) before it spent about 4 hours in the 60 deg C oven. After removal it did spend between 1 and 2 minutes rolling round a large WOK in a small amount of oil just to brown and crisp up the skin.

I intend to try this method the very next time I cook a whole chicken for Sunday lunch now that I have purchased an oven thermometer for this very purpose.

jane22

"Sadly most of this is nonsense since it is impossible to cook the meat at 170 deg C whilst ever it contains liquid water since to be hotter than 100 deg C all of it has to be turned into STEAM !. So unless you like turkey biscuits .........."

I'm afraid I didn't quite understand what you are trying to say here!! Are you saying it's impossible cook turkey at over 170 degrees C? That's definitely not true! Delia Smith recommends cooking at 220 degrees for 40 minutes then 170 degrees for the rest of the time... my mum cooked her turkey this way for 35 years or so, and now I do too, it's lovely!

http://www.deliaonline.com/cookery-school/how-to/how-to-roast-turkey,39,AR.html

Anyway, as I'm sure you know, there's a difference between most meat being safe to eat and a virus being dead. A virus can survive in cooked meat if the meat was not cooked at a high enough temperature. A virus is only killed by reaching 170 degrees C so cooking at 150 degrees (very possible to have cooked meat) does not kill off the virus. It does kill off bacteria though since they are completely different in structure & much easier to kill. Bacteria are the usual concern in meat e.g. salmonella is a bacteria and is killed at relatively low temperatures, but the virus is different.

This info all from my uncle, a consultant microbiologist and virologist, so he does know what he's talking about!!

quoia

jane22 wrote:

I'm afraid I didn't quite understand what you are trying to say here!! Are you saying it's impossible cook turkey at over 170 degrees C? That's definitely not true! Delia Smith recommends cooking at 220 degrees for 40 minutes then 170 degrees for the rest of the time

jane22 wrote:

...............you must cook the meat at an INTERNAL temperature of around 170 degrees C. This means you probably need to set your oven to around 185 or so.....

Following your Delia's instructions would no way achieve your original statement. Even after 3 or 4 hours in a 170 degC oven, 90% of the bird would never have exceeded 90 degC.
It just can't reach 170, because whilst ever the meat contains water 100 degC is a maximum due to its boiling point.

jane22 wrote:

Anyway, as I'm sure you know, there's a difference between most meat being safe to eat and a virus being dead. A virus can survive in cooked meat if the meat was not cooked at a high enough temperature. A virus is only killed by reaching 170 degrees C so cooking at 150 degrees (very possible to have cooked meat) does not kill off the virus. It does kill off bacteria though since they are completely different in structure & much easier to kill. Bacteria are the usual concern in meat e.g. salmonella is a bacteria and is killed at relatively low temperatures, but the virus is different.

This info all from my uncle, a consultant microbiologist and virologist, so he does know what he's talking about!!

As for this information, despite your uncle, it is not true.
Avian flu, including H5N1, can be killed off by PASTEURIZATION - an Internet search will reveal several references including US & UK governmental agencies.

Pasteuring IS about temperature but also about TIME - that's why you can buy pasteuriesd eggs that are still raw (the white might be slightly cloudy). Something can be pasteurised by reaching 100 deg C for just 1/100th of a second.
The same can be achieved at 96 degC but it's longer at 1/20th of a second.
At 94 deg C its 1/10th, at 90 C it's half a second.
At only 89 deg C it's a whole second !
Drop to just 72 C and it takes 15 seconds, or take it down to 63 deg C and you've increased it up to a whole 30 minutes - A FULL HALF AN HOUR but it achieves the same result. Milk is done at these longer times and lower temperatures to avoid affecting the taste - still tastes like milk unlike that sterilized stuff that has been boiled.

IF 170 did have to be achieved throuhout the entire bird then only total immersion in very hot fat/oil and deep fat frying it for a very long time until it was very "dry" and a total crisp would be a likely solution.
This would also mean an end to "virus free" chicken/turkey soups, casseroles, stews etc. where the fresh meat is tossed into a large pan/casserole dish/slowcooker with a load of veg & herbs etc and a few pints of water and cooked (boiled) for several hours or days or even weeks. Whilst ever it is a liquid, 100 deg C (212 deg F) cannot be exceeded. (see notes)

Notes
1: Adding lots of salt can increase this marginally - Distilled water boils at 100 deg C at 1 atmosphere of pressure ("normal" at sea level) - adding impurities can alter this.

2. Using a pressure cooker - 100 Deg C is dependent upon air pressure and is based on 1atm at sea level. Boil a kettle deep underground , several miles down a mine shaft and you may be able to reach 105 or even 110 deg C. Try at the top of Mt Everest at you'll be lucky to exceeed 70 deg C - immpossible to make a decent cup of tea !
So "boiling" your soup etc. in excess of 100 C is possible in your kitchen inside a pressure cooker but still way short of 170C. A Prestige HiTop comes with 3 weights to adjust pressure and hence temperature. The smallest weight achieves a BP of 108.5 deg C, the next pushes it up to 115.3 C and the heaviest means water boils at 122 C.

Hope this clarifies the problem with your statement.