in a bit of a muddle confusing la!

chloo

basically i am renting a flat currently with a friend- a friend who has done a runner not paid rent ect.

we are on a j.tennancy with 10months left and a break in august.

originally the la and ll has said i can leave 1st feb if i write a letter saying i agree to forfit the contract this would have to be singed by both of us. fine brillaint very kind of ll.

the rent is due for this month well over due i dont have the money to pay it my total wage is less than the rent per month!! i have been called a few times but the la saying where it the money- now i am just ignoring there calls.

they are threatening a section 8. fine im not sure what it quiet entails but i do know thanks to bitter and twisted that unless it goes unpaid after court it wont affect my credit score.

my problem is i cant afford the rent and bills. even if my oh was to move in we would still be £440 short each month. plus i dont see why my oh should take on someones elses responsability?

so fast forward to today i have been emailing the la they cant get hold of friend and as the friend still has keys and property here (which im guessing is dumped as friend has taken all clothes bed dvd tv ect) they wont be able to terminate contract without friend giving back keys and signing a letter.

i have basically been told the tennency will continue even though the la and ll have done a credit check on me and can see my earnings.

what should i do?

obviously its not fair on the ll.

its also not really my fault they cant get hold of friend. i have offered the whole deposit to be able to leave on 1st feb.

basically if they wont let me leave and surrender the tennany on 1st feb i have no choice but to be evicted which will mean a tonne of cost for the ll and a lot of stress all-round. as correct me if im wrong. a s21 to be granted and then a court order to get me out so aprox another 3 months or so?

how would you bargain with the la and ll?

what should i reply to the email?

i honestly dont want to go down the s21 route i want to be out of flat come 1st feb with whole deposit going to ll to cover 1 months rent and the other £300 going towards the ll's costs for reletting the flat. there is no damage in the property at the mo but thats not to say friend wont come in and dammage property eg spray paint wall ruin carpets.

if i was to move out come 1st feb what would the ll be able to actually do?

im not a mean person honest! all i want is to move into a cheap houseshare with my oh and save up for a deposit on my own house!

thank you in advance

BitterAndTwisted

If you are on a fixed-term AST they will not be able to issue you with a Section 21 Notice to get you out until the fixed-term ends. If this is absolutely incorrect someone else will come on a correct me. The only way they can get you out is via a Section 8 for non-payment of rent, two month's-worth as an absolute minimum when the S8 is issued and when it gets to court.

Is this a joint-tenancy? Would the LL.LA agree to you getting someone else in there who can pay the other half of the rent? If your b/f can't he's less than useless.

Where is this bloody ex co-tenant and do you have any way of finding them or a member of their family? Know where they work?

Where's there's a will there is a way.....

G_M

You refer several times to your co-tenant as a 'friend'. Really? In that case you'd a) know where they are and b) be discussing their plans and legal/financial responsibiliies.

So OK - let's say 'ex-friend'.

1) The LL has agreed to an early surrender of the tenancy, apparantly without penalty - which is great. Unfortunately it is dependant on 2 things: 1) the rent being paid up to that point and b) both joint tenants and LL all signing a surrender deed. Since you cannot pay the rent AND cannot contact your joint tenat, this solution seems doomed.

2) So you are legally bound (as indeed is the missing ex-friend - but he's gone so noone is going to chase him!) to pay the full rent till August, and can be sued for any rent arrears.

3) Once you are 2 months in arrears, however, you can be served a S8 Notice, and a court will evict you. They will also order you to pay arrears, and legal costs (and possibly compensation for breach of contract ie rent till a new tenant is installed.)

4) the most sensible solution is to get a lodger. Discuss this option with the L (who appears reasonable/amenable) and see if he agrees. If 'friend' returns, you'll have to give the lodger the push (lodgers have no rights/protection) but you'll be able to squeeze all the back rent and future rent out of your 'friend'.

jamie11

3) Once you are 2 months in arrears, however, you can be served a S8 Notice, and a court will evict you. They will also order you to pay arrears, and legal costs (and possibly compensation for breach of contract ie rent till a new tenant is installed.)

It is not 2 months in arrears, it's 2 months unpaid. That is where the rent is not paid on the due day and then not paid again on the next due day, so effectively a S8 with grounds 8/10/11 can be served the day after 1 month and 1 day of non-payment.

You may wish to use 'findermonkey' to trace your errant friend, I believe they charge £50 on a 'no find no pay basis'

chloo

thank you for your replies!

okay so no section 21 just a section 8 which would be served on 3nd feb 2012? as this would be the rent pay date.

go to court get evicted throught court fine. but how could the court expect me to pay rent when my earnings are under the monthly rent amount? surely i would just say cant afford it here have £5 a month?!

so for the ll its a load of hassle? isnt there a fair way to avoid court evicton as its will cost the ll a load of money which he wont get back for a long time?

rent not paid on 3rd feb would be £1200 (2 x £600pcm) evitction cost apro(£400) compo (£600) £2200 i would just go bankrupt? surely ll would have no luck?!


is it possible for me to get a loan from the bank for example pay this months rent and just leave on 1st feb with no rent arriers and claim the money i paid back from ex friends deposit? (which is a joint deposit)

or if i was to just do a runner like ex friend has done what can they actually do if they cant find me which i doubt they could?


ex friend is a cocaine user and very up and down i know where ex friends mums house is but she is been agressive in the past and made a few threats.

i really am at a lose end and its very frustrating.

whats the best option get a police escort to the mums house where i expect ex friend is hiding away get ex friend to sign paperwork hand to ll and la leave the 1st feb and deduct the extra rent i paid from ex friends deposit?


how bonkers is this situation!!

chloo

BitterAndTwisted wrote: »

If you are on a fixed-term AST they will not be able to issue you with a Section 21 Notice to get you out until the fixed-term ends. If this is absolutely incorrect someone else will come on a correct me. The only way they can get you out is via a Section 8 for non-payment of rent, two month's-worth as an absolute minimum when the S8 is issued and when it gets to court.

Is this a joint-tenancy? Would the LL.LA agree to you getting someone else in there who can pay the other half of the rent? If your b/f can't he's less than useless.

Where is this bloody ex co-tenant and do you have any way of finding them or a member of their family? Know where they work?

Where's there's a will there is a way.....

i know where they work what would you do go in with a letter get them to sign it? ex friend has been violent in the last and where they work there are lots of knives ect. i really dont feel safe around ex friend

BitterAndTwisted

chloo wrote: »

okay so no section 21 just a section 8 which would be served on 3nd feb 2012? as this would be the rent pay date.

Yep, om or after the 3rd Feb giving you notice that they are considering going to court to enforce eviction.

go to court get evicted throught court fine. but how could the court expect me to pay rent when my earnings are under the monthly rent amount? surely i would just say can't afford it here have £5 a month?!

It doesn't work like that: court is not some Middle-Eastern bazaar where you can haggle. You would be expected to furnish the court with all details of your income and outgoings and then the court will decide how much to pay towards the arrears, not you. And you will be charged the landlord's costs fro bringing the proceedings against you. And you would get a CCJ as well. That could scupper any plans you may have for getting any credit or a mortgage for the foreseeable future.

so for the ll its a load of hassle? isn't there a fair way to avoid court eviction as its will cost the ll a load of money which he won't get back for a long time?

DO NOT underestimate how determined and cross people can get when they have been patient, let down and are owed large sums of money!

rent not paid on 3rd feb would be £1200 (2 x £600pcm) evitction cost apro(£400) compo (£600) £2200 i would just go bankrupt? surely ll would have no luck?!

Bankruptcy for such a modest amount of debt may not be possible. It's not just something you can decide to do without reference to anyone else adn walk away without paying a penny to anyone. Especially courts.


is it possible for me to get a loan from the bank for example pay this months rent and just leave on 1st feb with no rent arrears and claim the money i paid back from ex friends deposit? (which is a joint deposit)

Maybe but that still leaves being able to surrender the tenancy with your cokehead ex-friend signing the documentation.

or if i was to just do a runner like ex friend has done what can they actually do if they can't find me which i doubt they could?

This is not some TV drama! I don't wish to be harsh but if people have a mind to, everyone can be found if someone is looking hard enough for long enough.


ex friend is a cocaine user and very up and down i know where ex friends mums house is but she is been aggressive in the past and made a few threats.

In which case I would start by writing to her care of her mother's address warning her of the dire consequences for both of you if this isn't sorted somehow. You could always attempt a bit of blind-siding telling her that they know where she is and they are most definitely going to chase her and that you've secured another place with the landlord's OK and as long as she signs the surrender documentation they won't take her to court. Cokeheads if they're in too deep often don't care about any of this so that sort of lie may not get anywhere.

i really am at a lose end and its very frustrating.

I'm really sorry but a loose end is not where you are. You are teetering on the brink of disaster with extremely serious consequences for your future. This is why you need to put your thinking-cap on about how you can get her signature on the surrender document.

whats the best option get a police escort to the mums house where i expect ex friend is hiding away get ex friend to sign paperwork hand to ll and la leave the 1st feb and deduct the extra rent i paid from ex friends deposit?

See if you can get a police escort. They might be interested if they're not busy and you tell them that you fear a breach of the peace if you go. They could quite reasonably tell you not to go anywhere when you think you could be in danger,
/QUOTE]

Darn I've broken the quote.

This isn't a bonkers situation: it's potentially very grave one.

Have you investigated the possibility of the LL/LA agreeing to your getting someone else in to pay the other half of the rent?

chloo

BitterAndTwisted wrote: »

chloo wrote: »

okay so no section 21 just a section 8 which would be served on 3nd feb 2012? as this would be the rent pay date.

Yep, om or after the 3rd Feb giving you notice that they are considering going to court to enforce eviction.

okay thanks

go to court get evicted throught court fine. but how could the court expect me to pay rent when my earnings are under the monthly rent amount? surely i would just say can't afford it here have £5 a month?!

It doesn't work like that: court is not some Middle-Eastern bazaar where you can haggle. You would be expected to furnish the court with all details of your income and outgoings and then the court will decide how much to pay towards the arrears, not you. And you will be charged the landlord's costs fro bringing the proceedings against you. And you would get a CCJ as well. That could scupper any plans you may have for getting any credit or a mortgage for the foreseeable future.

will only get a ccj if the costs arnt paid?

if a judge saw my income and outgoings they would see there is no money

income £520 full rent £600.

so for the ll its a load of hassle? isn't there a fair way to avoid court eviction as its will cost the ll a load of money which he won't get back for a long time?

DO NOT underestimate how determined and cross people can get when they have been patient, let down and are owed large sums of money!
i understand the ll will be angry but i think a lot of it is that the la isnt passing on info should i ask to directly deal with ll?

rent not paid on 3rd feb would be £1200 (2 x £600pcm) evitction cost apro(£400) compo (£600) £2200 i would just go bankrupt? surely ll would have no luck?!

Bankruptcy for such a modest amount of debt may not be possible. It's not just something you can decide to do without reference to anyone else adn walk away without paying a penny to anyone. Especially courts.

this would be joint debt so they would chase ex friend who earns tripple what i earn wouldnt they?
would it be a bit like for example csa or student loan where they take a cut of the rent?

is it possible for me to get a loan from the bank for example pay this months rent and just leave on 1st feb with no rent arrears and claim the money i paid back from ex friends deposit? (which is a joint deposit)

Maybe but that still leaves being able to surrender the tenancy with your cokehead ex-friend signing the documentation.

would ex friends parent be able to sign on behalf? tracing paper lol!!!

or if i was to just do a runner like ex friend has done what can they actually do if they can't find me which i doubt they could?

This is not some TV drama! I don't wish to be harsh but if people have a mind to, everyone can be found if someone is looking hard enough for long enough.
then why cant they frind ex friend that what i dont get the adress details of ex friends parents were put on the signing in documents!!


ex friend is a cocaine user and very up and down i know where ex friends mums house is but she is been aggressive in the past and made a few threats.

In which case I would start by writing to her care of her mother's address warning her of the dire consequences for both of you if this isn't sorted somehow. You could always attempt a bit of blind-siding telling her that they know where she is and they are most definitely going to chase her and that you've secured another place with the landlord's OK and as long as she signs the surrender documentation they won't take her to court. Cokeheads if they're in too deep often don't care about any of this so that sort of lie may not get anywhere.

i dont think she will care as she has done a runner for a housing authority house before, left water bill gas elc c.tax and a bt bill which i found out through the mother screaming at me!


i really am at a lose end and its very frustrating.

I'm really sorry but a loose end is not where you are. You are teetering on the brink of disaster with extremely serious consequences for your future. This is why you need to put your thinking-cap on about how you can get her signature on the surrender document.

i think the answer to this is tracing paper haha no im joking thats fraud an actualy crime im not like that. i think maybe go in to her work and get her to sign it with a police officer.

whats the best option get a police escort to the mums house where i expect ex friend is hiding away get ex friend to sign paperwork hand to ll and la leave the 1st feb and deduct the extra rent i paid from ex friends deposit?

See if you can get a police escort. They might be interested if they're not busy and you tell them that you fear a breach of the peace if you go. They could quite reasonably tell you not to go anywhere when you think you could be in danger,

i think the police would say dont go! i have previously contacted police about ex friend.
/QUOTE]

Darn I've broken the quote.

This isn't a bonkers situation: it's potentially very grave one.

Have you investigated the possibility of the LL/LA agreeing to your getting someone else in to pay the other half of the rent?

i have had a look but the ll wants £600 to change contracts and for us to move out for a 48hr peirod and then re referance at £200 per person so its bloody expensive and when looking on room advertising places i would propaply get only like £200 a month for the room including bills so that still leaves me £680 to pay when my wages wont even cover that! so its a bit of a no go.

i am really stuck and la dont seem to be communicating with the ll at all.

all i really need is a signauter. i can get a wonger loan of something for £300 im sure then claim it back from ex friends deposit so thats where im stuck.

i dont really have a viable back up plan for what to do if she wont sign...

thank you for your help b&t

thanks everyone else

BitterAndTwisted

chloo wrote: »

go to court get evicted throught court fine. but how could the court expect me to pay rent when my earnings are under the monthly rent amount? surely i would just say can't afford it here have £5 a month?!

It doesn't work like that: court is not some Middle-Eastern bazaar where you can haggle. You would be expected to furnish the court with all details of your income and outgoings and then the court will decide how much to pay towards the arrears, not you. And you will be charged the landlord's costs fro bringing the proceedings against you. And you would get a CCJ as well. That could scupper any plans you may have for getting any credit or a mortgage for the foreseeable future.

will only get a ccj if the costs arnt paid?

if a judge saw my income and outgoings they would see there is no money

income £520 full rent £600.


Will only get a CCJ if the rent they are claiming and the landlord's costs are not paid within a certain time-frame. Not ever having been in this position I am not clear on how long you would have to come up with all of the money.

so for the ll its a load of hassle? isn't there a fair way to avoid court eviction as its will cost the ll a load of money which he won't get back for a long time?

i understand the ll will be angry but i think a lot of it is that the la isnt passing on info should i ask to directly deal with ll?

In which case get in contact with your landlord immediately ans see if you talk to them face-to-face. Once they realise that you're not another flaky cokehead idiot they may be willing to negotiate with you.

this would be joint debt so they would chase ex friend who earns tripple what i earn wouldnt they?
would it be a bit like for example csa or student loan where they take a cut of the rent?

No. I think you may not have understood the impact and potential gravity of a joint-tenancy. They can chase you for the whole lot if they choose to. If you communicate with the LL/LA properly and sensibly and offer them the information on where your ex-friend could be found, Mum's home and employer's address they might decide to chase you for your half and her for hers. Doubtful but possible. You're the one in the flat and you're the they know how to find most easily at present.

or if i was to just do a runner like ex friend has done what can they actually do if they can't find me which i doubt they could?


This is not some TV drama! I don't wish to be harsh but if people have a mind to, everyone can be found if someone is looking hard enough for long enough.

then why cant they find ex friend that's what i don't get the address details of ex friends parents were put on the signing in documents!!

Because they know where to find you. And they haven't considered for the moment chasing you both separately. Which costs more money adn is more aggro.




i dont think she will care as she has done a runner for a housing authority house before, left water bill gas elc c.tax and a bt bill which i found out through the mother screaming at me!

You're right, she may not care. But she could care a whole lot more if you tuen up at her work and make a scene, letting everyone who hears what a sl@g adn hopless drug-addict she is. She might be persuaded to sign the surrender docs just by being threatening with it.



i have had a look but the ll wants £600 to change contracts and for us to move out for a 48hr peirod and then re referance at £200 per person so its bloody expensive and when looking on room advertising places i would propably get only like £200 a month for the room including bills so that still leaves me £680 to pay when my wages wont even cover that! so its a bit of a no go.

If the rent is currently £300 a month each why do you think you would only be able to get someone else for £200? I don't get it.

i am really stuck and la dont seem to be communicating with the ll at all.

Contact the landlord direct

all i really need is a signauter. i can get a wonger loan of something for £300 im sure then claim it back from ex friends deposit so thats where im stuck.

YOU can't claim anything from friend's share of deposit, that will go to LL. NO WONGA LOANS!!!!!! That is the lender of very last-resort and if any other lender in future sees that on your credit-file it'll be curtains.

Just get her to sign the surrender docs by any mean you can think of. By fair means or foul short of threats of physical violence in front of witnesses