Fight for Self-Employment? Or Find an Employer? - The First Since Adulthood

Stability

Have you considered becoming an associate/ standby to an existing company? ph-creative.com is an example. You could introduce yourself, and be available if they need extra help. This need not preclude any of your other options.

That's actually a really good idea, I know the company as I was looking at various agencies/companies in the area. :beer:

I agree that if you can demonstrate that you have already done something successfully, it impresses employers/clients more than just qualifications would. It is true that many people are trying their hand at website design, because they can do it at home on top of a regular job, but there may still be business for people who can offer good quality work.

This is basically what I've been trying to work towards, I've spent a lot of time lately brushing up older projects and writing history for them to put together a decent portfolio. I'm definitely leaning towards finding full-time employment and building up the company/personal work on the side. Thank you.

Have you been paying a stamp/tax? If not that could come and bite you hard at some point.

I've declared and stopped benefits for every bit of income I've had unless it's been cash / quick jobs etc. (I often offered bands to do photography at gigs for a tenner/few drinks etc. that wasn't declared).

You seem to think you'll walk straight into a job, I hope you're right, but a quick glance at what's available at the moment, a great many are asking for 5+ years experience and a degree. Don't be too quick to diss graduates/qualifications either - recruiters both in-company and agencies often will put those as a requirement to get rid of a lot of people who are just testing the market. You might be the best web designer in the world, but if you don't fit the position's criteria you won't get an interview.

I agree completely, and it is all a matter wherever I can pass the initial criteria to get into an interview situation. I haven't failed an interview yet (but that's about 5 jobs from age 14-18:rotfl:). The strength will have to come from my portfolio, skill-set and cover letter if I don't meet the criteria. I've designed a portfolio for a friend in order for him to get a high-paid job (yeah, he couldn't code, but lasted there for 6 months) so that's given me more optimism.

wow, where's your vets? i think i'll move. the cheapest i could get for my puppy was £65.

That was Northlands Vets, and it was a reduced rate for those with lower incomes. That's both jabs too weeks apart (there's of course more you could get if you're paranoid).

but even £40 then adding another £3-4 a week to your debts for nothing more than a whim is ridiculous. especially when you're expecting the taxpayer to fund it for you.

High horse much? As it goes I happen to view our dogs as members of the family, they're loved, cared for and well fed. That was about as useful as Anne Frank's alarm clock... The taxpayer, is me. I've paid far more in taxes then I ever have received in the periods I've been on benefits. I ain't telling you how to run your life dear, so please curb the attitude.

Stability

Sorry to say this but you arent self employed if you arent earning any money, you have a hobby and thats all. If i was in your position i would be out looking for any job i could get and continue with your web-site building in your spare time

Just to be clear I earnt several thousand from it. The reason that everything went tits up before I moved is because I came down with meningitis around April last year.

jfh7gwa

You might not like to hear this, but as much as experience is valuable, a degree in something related can help you get on especially as you start your career. Or any form of (respected) formal qualifications, for that matter. Put it this way - out of the web developers working in, oh, I don't know... your local web development agency or on an in-house team at any local blue chip HQs, what percentage of them have degrees? These are the people you are competing against.

I have a family member who has run his own web development (and associated services) firm for nearly 12 years now - and from working there on their admin team for a couple of years, I know for a fact that 75% of their staff either have degrees in a relevant subject, or are working on one. Most of them comp sci, but also a variety of others. I know that there were folks there who were hired just as copywriters and purely as graphic designers, for example - not just developers/all rounders.

And whilst in ten years it might not matter that you don't have a degree, at the moment you are an unknown quantity to people you're trying to sell yourself to... no formal education, no established company profile, a new "locality", etc... in a job which is very competative, can be easily outsourced to poorly paid internationals at the "grunt work" level, has been rapidly devalued in home markets due to the number of ameteurs who think they're a web development "professional" (usually after a 6 week course at their local college)... it's dire, from what I've heard. The family member I spoke about works primarily in one or two related sectors, for example - specialism and being able to stand out in some way helps.

If I were you?

Get yourself employed somewhere, establish yourself on the side, grow your network of contacts, and (this goes without saying but I didn't spot it being mentioned) ensure your online portfolio is top notch. Just make sure that as you do grow your sideline into a profitable business, it doesn't infringe on any of your employer's contractual terms e.g. on poaching clients or touting for extra business on the side.

And good luck!

PlutoinCapricorn

The general advice on MSE is to build up a self employed business on the side while working in a regular job and only "give up the day job" when you have built up a network of contacts, are turning work down and earning enough to support yourself.

I know of self employed people (solely SE and both SE and employed) who have joined a company as Associates. The company can't afford to pay them a salary, but will put work their way if anything suitable comes in. They have a pool of people to draw on. This does not stop the freelancers getting freelance work directly, it just adds another possible source. They pay a 'cut', but in return get marketing, legitimacy and the benefit of a 'name', not to mention experienced colleagues. You do need to find a reputable company with a good track record of course. I am sure that they will be impressed with what you have achieved so far, which to me is a lot considering your age and the illness.

Stability

Thank you, that was really sound advice.

I definitely believe a formal qualification would be of benefit, it's just going to a very long way around the circle from where I am now. I never finished school and worked full-time from the age of 14. I won't go into specific circumstances suffice to say that I've been independent from around that age. For me, I believe the best thing to do is build it up and establish myself (the company) properly as you say and concentrate on my portfolio. The market is certainly extremely competitive, unfortunately time is against me and getting my portfolio absolutely perfect may take longer than I have.

I suppose it begs the question: What else could I look for as my full-time job?

As you said, building my business on the sidelines could infringe on my employers T&C, moreover it's going to be seen as a conflict of interest either way. I've been building computers since the age of 10, I worked in a butchery for nearly a year, and worked in a PC repair shop for about the same length of time. The one huge thing would be that I think it would need to complement by own personal work and be something that I enjoy doing (I know bread needs to be on the table, but happiness breeds motivation and success, at least that's how it works for me). It's a broad question, but any suggestions?

EDIT

The general advice on MSE is to build up a self employed business on the side while working in a regular job and only "give up the day job" when you have built up a network of contacts, are turning work down and earning enough to support yourself.

I know of self employed people (solely SE and both SE and employed) who have joined a company as Associates. The company can't afford to pay them a salary, but will put work their way if anything suitable comes in. They have a pool of people to draw on. This does not stop the freelancers getting freelance work directly, it just adds another possible source. They pay a 'cut', but in return get marketing, legitimacy and the benefit of a 'name', not to mention experienced colleagues. You do need to find a reputable company with a good track record of course. I am sure that they will be impressed with what you have achieved so far, which to me is a lot considering your age and the illness.

After the comments so far I definitely believe getting a full-time job and building up on the side is the way to move forward. In regards to working as an associate, I'm actually in contact with a web marketer in the local area who wants to set up a group of Internet related professionals, he named it 'Internet Mastermind Group' (yeah, I know) but I think that's something that will really help in establishing in the local area. He asked me to help with the event organisation for the first meet up (I've set up a lot of events in the past related to by work with bands). In regards to associating with work in the past I've also done similar things with a friend (an illustrator) passing work between us, whichever is more suitable. I think the point you made about networking could prove to be invaluable.

I haven't gone into much detail about my life, because there's a lot to cover. But suffice to say that I've tried extremely hard to get my life in order after my childhood, and that means succeeding. I really want to achieve the best I possibly can despite set backs I've had. I will get there, I just need to carefully plan ahead!

Mistral001

Any prospective employer in IT or web design, I would imagine, will be put off by your lack of experience working for an employer. You could try working casually in a bar for a few hours a week just to get that experience.

Also, I have been self-employed for several years, and no matter what people say, you do get stale after a while unless you start to grow the business and start hiring people and can delegate a lot of the detail to trusted staff.

If you cannot see your business growing at any pace, then you are likely to fall far behind others in your field. Others who are mingling with people on a daily basis and bouncing things off each other. Others who have their pulse on the market for people like yourself because they mix with people who have maybe worked for several employers in the past. That fact that you have not experienced that might mean that you do not know what you are missing. I have experinced it and certainly know the value of it now.

jfh7gwa

Looks like you've had enough advice now to get to grips with your longer term plans - I don't want to advise on getting any job in the meantime, because that's a subject in itself! You could argue that you'd want to go for something that is relevant, or try and get a couple of weeks experience (potentially unpaid) somewhere impressive, or there is also a very good argument for getting a bar job with few stresses/responsibilities outside of your shift work (allowing you to concentrate on your sideline).

However, I did have 1 more thing to add which I'd forgotten to cover in my previous post on the thread - look at alternate contract strategies as you grow (not just project based work, or associate work... look at e.g. the monthly retainer model which a lot of copywriters seemed to want).

Stability

Any prospective employer in IT or web design, I would imagine, will be put off by your lack of experience working for an employer. You could try working casually in a bar for a few hours a week just to get that experience.

I do agree, officially my CV states that I've worked for myself (the company name) since December 2009. I have had 6 (?) jobs in the past under an employer, but that's from the age of 14-18 and done (bar computer repair) hold any relevance to my skill-set.

Also, I have been self-employed for several years, and no matter what people say, you do get stale after a while unless you start to grow the business and start hiring people and can delegate a lot of the detail to trusted staff.

If you cannot see your business growing at any pace, then you are likely to fall far behind others in your field. Others who are mingling with people on a daily basis and bouncing things off each other. Others who have their pulse on the market for people like yourself because they mix with people who have maybe worked for several employers in the past. That fact that you have not experienced that might mean that you do not know what you are missing. I have experinced it and certainly know the value of it now.

Honestly, that was the hardest thing when everything was up and running with several clients. Keeping on top of the company image, marketing, news pages etc. while wrestling clients and trying to also forward my own skills. I struggled like hell, I was managing 7 local bands, and was running events (every 2 weeks at one point) at 2 different venues while doing Photoshoots, Logo Designs, Posters and managing bands social images. I did have a very good reputation in the area, I had tens of bands wanting slots on my shows (I still get them now) and lots of people wanting work in general. The biggest problem was, there's so little money in the music industry, and time vs. pay vs demand was a huge problem. The shows were good profit, but it's extremely hard booking, promoting and running a show on your own! Networking and finding people to delegate/outsource to was something I always said I needed to do, problem was, I didn't find anyone I could trust enough.

I do really want the experience of working for another web design company, for experience, to see how there operation is, to network etc.

Stability

Looks like you've had enough advice now to get to grips with your longer term plans - I don't want to advise on getting any job in the meantime, because that's a subject in itself! You could argue that you'd want to go for something that is relevant, or try and get a couple of weeks experience (potentially unpaid) somewhere impressive, or there is also a very good argument for getting a bar job with few stresses/responsibilities outside of your shift work (allowing you to concentrate on your sideline).

However, I did have 1 more thing to add which I'd forgotten to cover in my previous post on the thread - look at alternate contract strategies as you grow (not just project based work, or associate work... look at e.g. the monthly retainer model which a lot of copywriters seemed to want).

I've had it advised to be before to go for a large (reputable) company and ask to do an unpaid trial, with the possibility of full-time employment. It's something I've strongly considered, money is obviously the crucial factor, I haven't the capital to go and work for free, it's a big gamble.

I can see why bar/factory etc. work could be a benefit, distraction/stress wise, but then again, I want to keep be surrounded like those who can benefit my sideline work. I'm very much somebody who can only put all my concentration into one thing at a time, or at least, one thing consumes me at a time.

Thank you though, I am getting a much better layout of the road ahead.

Mistral001

Stability wrote: »

I do agree, officially my CV states that I've worked for myself (the company name) since December 2009. I have had 6 (?) jobs in the past under an employer, but that's from the age of 14-18 and done (bar computer repair) hold any relevance to my skill-set.

Honestly, that was the hardest thing when everything was up and running with several clients. Keeping on top of the company image, marketing, news pages etc. while wrestling clients and trying to also forward my own skills. I struggled like hell, I was managing 7 local bands, and was running events (every 2 weeks at one point) at 2 different venues while doing Photoshoots, Logo Designs, Posters and managing bands social images. I did have a very good reputation in the area, I had tens of bands wanting slots on my shows (I still get them now) and lots of people wanting work in general. The biggest problem was, there's so little money in the music industry, and time vs. pay vs demand was a huge problem. The shows were good profit, but it's extremely hard booking, promoting and running a show on your own! Networking and finding people to delegate/outsource to was something I always said I needed to do, problem was, I didn't find anyone I could trust enough.

I see where you are coming from. The term "music business" and "trust" do not go well together. You probably are the type of person who likes doing a good job and maybe get relied on by too many people for your own good.

The other jobs you had as when still at school, I would not totally discard. Employers WILL be interested in them.