Immigration does not cause rising unemployment

Running_Horse

There are whole industries round here that now have virtually no indigenous workers, and whole estates where most local born young people have never worked. Is it really beyond the skill of politicians to design a system that does not pay taxpayer's money to healthy young people to sit around all day? Are we going to consign a whole generation to welfare dependency?

Generali

Immigrants consume, just the same as locals do. It makes no difference if you're born here or not. Consumption creates output. Output creates jobs.

It's probably worth noting that an adult that migrates to the UK is an additional member of the workforce that doesn't have to be educated, born in an NHS hospital etc. They come to the UK with a skill set and are usually a pretty motivated bunch. You don't leave your family and friends to sit around on your cul, you do it for a better life. Let's face it, you're not going to go for the climate or the cost of living!

Don't imagine that immigrants are all uneducated poor people that are on the minimum wage. There are plenty of bankers, doctors, accountants, lawyers, engineers and entrepreneurs in the UK that were born abroad.

Kennyboy66

Running_Horse wrote: »

There are whole industries round here that now have virtually no indigenous workers, and whole estates where most local born young people have never worked. Is it really beyond the skill of politicians to design a system that does not pay taxpayer's money to healthy young people to sit around all day? Are we going to consign a whole generation to welfare dependency?

This is a real concern, but little to do with immigration.
There are no end of areas of the country whuch have large numbers of people how have never worked (formally) since the 1980's - well before European immigration boomed.

There is no real solution beyond the 'carrot' of training and education and the 'stick' of some compulsory voluntary work / workfare.
A huge failing of Labour who presided over a booming economy but did little to address this.

Running_Horse

I see no problem in telling healthy people, if you don't work you go hungry.

It motivated millions of people to travel thousands of miles to this country.

So why not use it to motivate locals to travel a few miles to an industrial estate or farm?

CRASH_BANG_WALLOP

Running_Horse wrote: »

I see no problem in telling healthy people, if you don't work you go hungry.

It motivated millions of people to travel thousands of miles to this country.

So why not use it to motivate locals to travel a few miles to an industrial estate or farm?

yeah lets starve people

Running_Horse

But they won't starve. They're healthy. They'll work.

wotsthat

Generali wrote: »

Immigrants consume, just the same as locals do. It makes no difference if you're born here or not. Consumption creates output. Output creates jobs.

It's probably worth noting that an adult that migrates to the UK is an additional member of the workforce that doesn't have to be educated, born in an NHS hospital etc. They come to the UK with a skill set and are usually a pretty motivated bunch. You don't leave your family and friends to sit around on your cul, you do it for a better life. Let's face it, you're not going to go for the climate or the cost of living!

Don't imagine that immigrants are all uneducated poor people that are on the minimum wage. There are plenty of bankers, doctors, accountants, lawyers, engineers and entrepreneurs in the UK that were born abroad.

The fact that immigrants consume is a given. It seems a minor consideration when setting immigration policy though. The more important question is does an immigrant produce a net positive output. It's one of those areas where numbers seem hard to come by and when numbers are available different sides of the debate can take them to mean polar opposites of each other.

What concerns me is that whilst I can see how it can be shown that immigrants add to GDP etc. we have so many unemployed and families afflicted with worklessness. Whilst there are many skilled immigrants the majority are carrying out more menial tasks and earning low incomes. These are jobs that could be done by people that already reside in the UK. Successive governments have failed to deal with the culture of worklessness that exists in significant numbers of households. It's been easier to not deal with the problem and import labour instead.

Lot's might suggest that there should be massive benefits cuts to force people into work. I sort of go along with this but in reality you'll end up with a pi**sed off person who doesn't want to work - what sort of employer is looking for this type of employee?

The unpalatable truth is that worklessness is likely best dealt with by expensive family support and more focused benefits. In the short-term it will cost money. If we can just get people in work they'll see the benefits and will therefore encourage the next generation that work is a better option than not working.

I work with companies that use a lot of immigrant labour for low skilled work. It's going to be tough for someone from a workless familiy to compete. They are better educated than a local worker doing the same job, better motivated and have a better work ethic. I know some that hate all the UK bank holidays because they don't want the day off, even with pay, because they lose the opportunity to work overtime.

BritRael

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Low skilled people earn minimum wage.

It doesn't matter if you're an immigrant or native born, minimum wage is the same for both.

er...no. Many sectors (farming and hotels etc) often employ immigrants at below the minimum wage. Thats why Brits cannot compete.

nembot

No of course not, immigration definitely doesn't create unemployment - hence the massive number of workers from the continent in various positions around North Wales, Liverpool and Manchester (areas I'm familiar with).

Well no real unemployment for these workers, natives yes they are suffering and anyone who suggests otherwise has ZERO credibility.

Conrad

My real world experience is that self employed folk have been often undercut and as a result lost considerable income the last few years. No doubt this sort of thing just wont show up in official stats - the average bricky I know doesn't have much to do with official surveys and Tax collectors.