Intereresting article on JSA claimants - massive fraud going on?

heathcote123

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/8993825/Half-of-benefits-claimants-refuse-to-do-unpaid-work.html

I can quite understands people would be put out to do 'free' work, but surely if thats the money you need to live on, you just get on with it for four weeks?

Generali

If that many quit the dole perhaps it's worth increasing it a little and getting recipients to do an hour or two of work a day at varying times to shake out the cash in hand people.

My experience of people on the dole in SE London was that most of them did something on the side. Mostly it would be the sort of thing that I don't think many would object to like occasionally helping out their brother as a driver's mate if they were stuck I'm return for a bit of beer money. There were plenty that were running small businesses though. Fixing up cars for second hand dealers seemed popular as did bar work and labouring.

Annecdote isn't data of course.

vivatifosi

Generali wrote: »

Annecdote isn't data of course.

Speaking of data, there's an interesting comment at the bottom of the article which refers to an organisation I'd never heard of called Full Fact. Full Fact's role is to check up on what is in the news and as whether it is true or not.

Full Fact contacted the DWP which stated that no figures on whether or not the pilot had been a success had been released yet.

http://fullfact.org/blog/unemployment_jobseekers_allowance_workshy-3223

On its home page, there are some other interesting pages that its had a dig behind, such as whether or not the number of homes left empty has risen to over 1m (proven false), as well as digging into other issues such as benefit fraud and whether job vacancies are really at their top level for two years.

Very interesting and well worth a read, could add some interesting background to a lot of the stories we discuss on here:
http://fullfact.org/

drc

Just proves the scale of the black market.

StevieJ

Good spot Viva, I doubt the rabid mailites will be checking that site, am I right DRC

tartanterra

vivatifosi wrote: »

Speaking of data, there's an interesting comment at the bottom of the article which refers to an organisation I'd never heard of called Full Fact. Full Fact's role is to check up on what is in the news and as whether it is true or not.

Full Fact contacted the DWP which stated that no figures on whether or not the pilot had been a success had been released yet.

http://fullfact.org/blog/unemployment_jobseekers_allowance_workshy-3223

On its home page, there are some other interesting pages that its had a dig behind, such as whether or not the number of homes left empty has risen to over 1m (proven false), as well as digging into other issues such as benefit fraud and whether job vacancies are really at their top level for two years.

Very interesting and well worth a read, could add some interesting background to a lot of the stories we discuss on here:
http://fullfact.org/

Whilst the figures are clearly "unofficial", I wouldn't be surprised if they were far off the mark.

Anyone who believes that there is no one in this country who is work shy, fiddling benefits, or working cash in hand is fooling themselves.

It will be interesting to see the "official" figures when they are released.
If this scheme really is as successful as the press claims, then it should be rolled out across the country without delay.

PaulF81

Generali wrote: »

If that many quit the dole perhaps it's worth increasing it a little and getting recipients to do an hour or two of work a day at varying times to shake out the cash in hand people.

My experience of people on the dole in SE London was that most of them did something on the side. Mostly it would be the sort of thing that I don't think many would object to like occasionally helping out their brother as a driver's mate if they were stuck I'm return for a bit of beer money. There were plenty that were running small businesses though. Fixing up cars for second hand dealers seemed popular as did bar work and labouring.

Annecdote isn't data of course.

wouldnt work old chap. Most of the guys I encounter "Cash in hand" are those that are just crossing the VAT threshold and cant afford the VAT bill as a result, or those under threshold falling on bad times, needing every penny they can get. Only one way to pay trade in my view, and thats with cold hard cash.

Thats not to mention "barter trade" between those in the industry, or paying trade with 200 B+H.

heathcote123

PaulF81 wrote: »

wouldnt work old chap. Most of the guys I encounter "Cash in hand" are those that are just crossing the VAT threshold and cant afford the VAT bill as a result, or those under threshold falling on bad times, needing every penny they can get. Only one way to pay trade in my view, and thats with cold hard cash.

Thats not to mention "barter trade" between those in the industry, or paying trade with 200 B+H.

Erm, I think your mates have got it wrong. They need to charge their rate+VAT. Thats what normal businesses do.

If they're invoicing out 75k (vat threshold) and working cash in hand they deserve a public flogging.

chewmylegoff

heathcote123 wrote: »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/8993825/Half-of-benefits-claimants-refuse-to-do-unpaid-work.html

I can quite understands people would be put out to do 'free' work, but surely if thats the money you need to live on, you just get on with it for four weeks?

Would be interesting to see what would happen if they focussed their anti-fraud resources on the people who immediately signed off...

vivatifosi

tartanterra wrote: »

Whilst the figures are clearly "unofficial", I wouldn't be surprised if they were far off the mark.

My husband many years ago worked at the local Job Centre between his first degree and his PhD. I know that he saw many brazen things then, such as a private hire cab pulling up in the car park while he was looking out of the windows during lunch, taking off its top light and going in to sign on; or people coming in in overalls and covered in paint saying they were "just doing their own house up". So I don't doubt that these things happen.

The figures may indeed be correct, but I'm more concerned that something that cannot be checked up on has been leaked. This is common practice and I'm not sure whether its from the civil service or the tories. Either way I know this sort of thing went on under labour as well, so neither side is whiter than white. If it is right, then I'm not that far away from your view that this should be brought in, in fact why not release the figures early? However what is happening is someone might be using the figures for political point-scoring, which is juvenile and depressing, seeing that we need grown-ups to get us out of the giant mess we're in. Or on the other hand, someone might just be making the whole thing up, which is equally depressing.

kabayiri

I think the scheme described is a good one, but my concern is around timing.

Why wasn't this an issue demanding a response pre-credit crunch? Surely it's the duty of the state workers to ensure public money is spent as efficiently as possible ALL the time.

I think before 2007 there was a complacent attitude to spending state money.