It's not just the public sector....

kabayiri

CLAPTON wrote: »

yes it is a difficult topic which is why economics is difficult

try to think in terms of real things like goods and services rather than money (althoguh that's important too)
think about how those things come into being and the meaning of 'burden'

do you think that if you have a pension fund then future generations do not have to work for those things that you consume?

it's worth thinking about.



what makes excellent sense for a individual person doesn't necessarilly make sense when you look at the complete economy

I understand where you are coming from, but maybe I just think I do !

If we really have a finite pot to fund retirement, be it funded or unfunded provision, then maybe we should look at getting value from those retirement funds.

Having one group of pensioners relatively well off compared to another group isn't an answer. Pensioners who do not eat properly, or stay warm, can end up in hospital which is a mighty expensive hostelry when you see it that way.

A friend works for the council assessing elderly peoples' care needs, and if necessary placing a charge on their property to pay for this care provision. Inevitably, this doesn't go down well with siblings, but I was still shocked to hear about the threats he gets on a daily basis over the phone! You would think he was complicit in stealing the very lifeblood from the family.

It seems we all want our elderly to be looked after, as long as it's not us out of pocket.

ruggedtoast

Road_Hog wrote: »

Well, I'm not okay with that, and you don't fund your pension, I do. So can I have my 25% of my council tax back please, that funds your pension that I do not wish to pay for.

No.


....

Road_Hog

ruggedtoast wrote: »

I do not work for a local authority, nor am I retired, so I am not a beneficiary of "your" 25%.

I didn't say you were local authority, but you do work for the public sector and you do cost me 25% of my council tax and I don't wish to continue paying for your pension. Would you like to pay for my pension?

RenovationMan

CLAPTON wrote: »

yes it is a difficult topic which is why economics is difficult

try to think in terms of real things like goods and services rather than money (althoguh that's important too)
think about how those things come into being and the meaning of 'burden'

do you think that if you have a pension fund then future generations do not have to work for those things that you consume?

it's worth thinking about.



what makes excellent sense for a individual person doesn't necessarilly make sense when you look at the complete economy

I think it's a subject made difficult by your disjointed, meandering and unpunctuated posts (sorry, but I'm just being honest).

However, I'm going to stick with it and let's see if we can clear a few things up. With your 'burden' theory, are you talking about the time when people are building up their pension pots or are you talking about the time when people are actually pensioners and using their pension?

robmatic

RenovationMan wrote: »

I think it's a subject made difficult by your disjointed, meandering and unpunctuated posts (sorry, but I'm just being honest).

However, I'm going to stick with it and let's see if we can clear a few things up. With your 'burden' theory, are you talking about the time when people are building up their pension pots or are you talking about the time when people are actually pensioners and using their pension?

I suspect Clapton doesn't appreciate the profound difference between an unfunded pension in payment being paid 'out of the till' and a pension being secured by an annuity.

ruggedtoast

Road_Hog wrote: »

I didn't say you were local authority, but you do work for the public sector and you do cost me 25% of my council tax and I don't wish to continue paying for your pension. Would you like to pay for my pension?

I am going to give you this link, which you will enjoy reading. You can then rest easy in the knowledge that I don't owe you any council tax, and go back to feeling consumed with bitterness, jealousy and resentment about the people you do fund.

Those notable fat cats and beneficiaries of taxpayer welfare like, teachers, firefighters, dinner ladies, nurses and policemen.

http://www.unitetheunion.org/news__events/latest_news/ten_top_facts_on_local_governm.aspx

CLAPTON

RenovationMan wrote: »

I think it's a subject made difficult by your disjointed, meandering and unpunctuated posts (sorry, but I'm just being honest).

However, I'm going to stick with it and let's see if we can clear a few things up. With your 'burden' theory, are you talking about the time when people are building up their pension pots or are you talking about the time when people are actually pensioners and using their pension?

fair enough


I am talking about the pension issues at the time that they being taken

The idea that pensions are a burden on future generations is in common currency (repeated here many times a day ) and that we can't afford public sector pensions etc is daily aired in the newspapers.


There is a general perception that somehow having funded schemes reduces the burden on future generations.

Every economist knows that this is not really true.
I was trying to share some of those insights.

CLAPTON

robmatic wrote: »

I suspect Clapton doesn't appreciate the profound difference between an unfunded pension in payment being paid 'out of the till' and a pension being secured by an annuity.

OK maybe I do, maybe I don't

But maybe you could explain how the goods and service consumed by those two sets of pensioners actually differ.

Are the goods and services consumed by state pensioner different is some way from those consumed by pensioner with an annunity.

Does it take less work for the working population to produce one compared to the other?

Andy_L

Road_Hog wrote: »

I didn't say you were local authority, but you do work for the public sector and you do cost me 25% of my council tax and I don't wish to continue paying for your pension. Would you like to pay for my pension?

I'm curious, how does somebody working for, say, the NHS apply any cost to your council tax

RenovationMan

CLAPTON wrote: »

OK maybe I do, maybe I don't

But maybe you could explain how the goods and service consumed by those two sets of pensioners actually differ.

Are the goods and services consumed by state pensioner different is some way from those consumed by pensioner with an annunity.

Does it take less work for the working population to produce one compared to the other?

I don't understand why you're discussing goods and services consumed when talking about the burden of a penson on future generations?