BBC Finance - more racism

Generali

danothy wrote: »

On betting exchanges, yes, which is a bit of a hump in the first place by the house as they are just middle men who don't take the risk. Bookies are organisations that set themselves up in business to be the other party and know and accept the risks. If you as an individual use an offer by one of those bookies to guarantee a win and the loosing party is an individual on a betting exchange (who is already being humped by the house) then I feel that is not ethical. If you could lay the bet against another bookie then I would feel fine with that, but the bookies don't generally let you do that because they know better.

The bit I find objectionable is the (potential) exploitation of the other people in betting exchanges that the matched betting system relies upon.

If I've misunderstood how it works or there is a bookie you can lay against that takes the risk themselves then fair enough. But like I said, I'm not so sure matched betting is ethical.

Two people freely enter into a contract on a matched betting exchange just the same as if you go into William Hills. The other person isn't coerced into making a bet, in fact on a matched betting exchange they've offered up the bet for anyone to take (as long as you take the market price rather than putting in a speculative price hoping for someone to bite).

I'm not sure where the unethical part is. In fact the other party may well be a bookie as they often use Betfair to lay off bets.

danothy

Simply put, when someone engages in matched betting they aren't betting in the conventional sense, they are positioning themselves so they will be better off whatever the outcome. If one of the potential income sources is coming from an individual and not a bookie I see a problem, as that's profiteering from one side in my eyes rather than a fair bet. I see it as exploitation even if it's the bookie that loses out.

I don't see how it is ethical to pay off a loan quicker than the terms dictate either ... especially if to do so robs the tax payer of the interest payments.

RUN_RABBIT_RUN

wow talk about going wildly off topic, ha ha

like to have the odd flutter on the betting exchanges, makes things a bit more interesting tho very careful not to overdo it as know how bad people can get with it

michaels

And srely taking a positon on an outcome is no different whether you are 'investing' in a share or 'betting' on a football match. Excahnges are expensive in terms of commission charged by the middle man so I generally 'dutch' between two bookmakers for example betting more than 2.5 goals at one and less at the other however this is unethical as no doubt it is reducing the profit going to the bookmakers shareholders whop may be individuals or pension fund holders. I tend to do a couple of 'trades' a month and aim to average £100 month profit - tax free of course.

hallmark

danothy wrote: »

I don't see how it is ethical to pay off a loan quicker than the terms dictate either ... especially if to do so robs the tax payer of the interest payments.

So paying off the loan is bad advice because it would be a bad financial move for you. And now you're also saying paying it off would be bad financially for the tax payer.

How does that work then? Is this some kind of magic loan that makes everyone better off as long as it's not paid back?

danothy

hallmark wrote: »

So paying off the loan is bad advice because it would be a bad financial move for you. And now you're also saying paying it off would be bad financially for the tax payer.

How does that work then? Is this some kind of magic loan that makes everyone better off as long as it's not paid back?

If you read the bit you've quoted then you will see that I said paying it off before the terms of the loan require it, not just not paying it off. And anyway, it is a magic loan in a sense, in that it has different rules than any other loan I can think of.

So to sum up:

• What you posted wasn't funny;
• It's generally bad advice to suggest paying off student loans early;
• As an aside I mentioned that I think matched betting is unethical (because you brought it up), which you seemed to fixate on as the main issue. If there's ways of playing bookies off against each other then fine, but I won't be spending my time trying to find that niche;
• I gave a mention to the lost interest payments to the state as a result of early repayment since you bought ethics into early repayment of loans, I assumed the tax payer getting their money back was what you were getting at with that. I may be wrong.

Lets draw a line under this now and move on with our lives.

hallmark

Well, you didn't find it funny & I'm still 100% of the opinion that paying any loan early is wondeful advice. Also I think fleecing bookies is the very essence of ethical, likewise the quickest possible paying back of the loan that taxpayers afforded you.

So to actually sum up, I believe we disagree on every point. I've already been moving on with my life tho', an excellent day of MB today

StevieJ

hallmark wrote: »

Well, you didn't find it funny & I'm still 100% of the opinion that paying any loan early is wondeful advice. Also I think fleecing bookies is the very essence of ethical, likewise the quickest possible paying back of the loan that taxpayers afforded you.

So to actually sum up, I believe we disagree on every point. I've already been moving on with my life tho', an excellent day of MB today

Not so good advice for the many who are on BR+0.25% mortgages or similar, at least not for the moment.

hallmark

Again, we agree to disagree. IMO people on BR+0.25% mortgages are the VERY people who should be most focussed on paying off their loan early.


For them their mortgage repayment only has one direction. Up.

StevieJ

hallmark wrote: »

Again, we agree to disagree. IMO people on BR+0.25% mortgages are the VERY people who should be most focussed on paying off their loan early.


For them their mortgage repayment only has one direction. Up.

So what, provided the excess cash is stashed in higher paying accounts e.g. Fixed Cash Isa or NS&I (when available).