advice needed, old debt and getting letters!

fermi

Actually, before I do that I need to confirm what "prove it" letter you sent them?

Did you just ask for proof of the debt? Or did you also say it would be statute barred?

Angry_Bear

My take is that they haven't provided proof. Sorry, but "'cause we say so" just doesn't cut it .
Your contact to them in January won't count unless you acknowledged the debt, which the two templates above are careful not to do.

Again, I think it's unlikely that they actually have evidence from 2006 although they're playing a risk game if they're lying in writing! Why don't you send a SAR to them so that they will have to give you a copy of this letter, IF they actually have it.

You say you're paying another debt with them - it's entirely possible that they will try to pass off a letter about the other debt as an acknowledgement of this one, if you see what I mean.

fermi

Their "say so" certainly doesn't "cut it" as you say.

A SAR might be a bit of overkill at this point, but is a possibility depending on how this pans out. First, as said, I would like to know exactly which letter was sent to produce this response.

lurchy

we only have this debt with them, i probably didnt explain it all too well...forgive my ignorance , what is an SAR?

lurchy

thanks fermi, the letter we sent was the one from the link you put up earlier in this thread , post number 5 in the list, a hybrid prove it type letter.

fermi

SAR = Subject Access Request under the data protection act for all the info they hold on you.

Costs £10 though, and they have 40 days to comply, and can be a pain extracting what you need. May be worth considering at some point.

Which "prove it" letter did you send.

fermi

lurchy wrote: »

thanks fermi, the letter we sent was the one from the link you put up earlier in this thread , post number 5 in the list, a hybrid prove it type letter.

Gotcha. That makes a reply for now a bit easier.

fermi

Possible letter if previous letters are ignored.

Report them to the OFT and Trading Standards as well.

I do not acknowledge any debt to you or any other company or organisation that you claim to be representing.

Acc/Ref No: *******************

FORMAL COMPLAINT under the complaint procedures set out by the Financial Ombudsman.

Thank you for your letter dated xx/xx/2008, the contents of which are noted.

On xx/xx/2008 I wrote to <Name of debt collector> regarding a debt that was alleged to be owed by myself. That letter was received and signed for on xx/xx/2008 as confirmed by Royal Mail tracking.

In this letter I pointed out the following items:

1) We have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to <creditor>.

2) We are familiar with the ‘Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance’ which states that it is unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question. We would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable.

3) In not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive/and or unfair methods. Furthermore, ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical/psychological harassment.

4) That based on the information you have supplied, this account would also be statute barred under the Limitation Act 1980

5) Under the Limitation Act 1980 Section 5"an action founded on simple contract shall not be brought after the expiration of six years from the date on which the cause of action accrued".

6) The OFT say under their Debt Collection Guidance on statute barred debt that "it is unfair to pursue the debt if the debtor has heard nothing from the creditor during the relevant limitation period".

7) The last correspondence/payment/acknowledgement or payment of this debt was made over six years ago and no further acknowledgement or payment has been made since that time. Unless you can provide evidence of payment or written contact from me in the relevant period under Section 5 of the Limitation Act, I suggest that you are no longer able to take any court action against me to recover the alleged amount claimed.

8) The OFT Debt Collection Guidance states further that "continuing to press for payment after a debtor has stated that they will not be paying a debt because it is statute barred could amount to harassment contrary to section 40 (1) of the Administration of Justice Act 1970".

Therefore it is clear that your original contact regarding this debt may well have been in breach of the Office of Fair Trading Guideline referred to in items (2) and (6).

By not ceasing collection activity and investigating a dispute, you are in breach of OFT guidelines mentioned in point (3).

Furthermore, your second letter is in breach of Office of Fair Trading Guideline referred to in item (8) and directly constitutes harassment.

As you are no doubt aware, breaches of the OFT's Guidance on Debt Collection are treated seriously by the OFT when considering your fitness to hold a Consumer Credit License.

You claim that acknowledgement was made in 200X.

I dispute this utterly, and demand that you provide proof of any acknowledgement by myself that you would seek to rely on in court.

Please note that any acknowledgement not personally made by myself does not restart the limitation period.

To cause a fresh accrual of a right of action any acknowledgement must be in writing and be signed by the debtor.

It must also be in the words of the OFT:

"an unequivocal written admission clearly acknowledging that the obligation still subsists"

If you persist in claiming a fictitious acknowledgement was made, or that a recent letter disputing the debt qualifies as acknowledgement, then any such attempted deception on your part will be referred to the regulatory bodies of both you and your solicitors. The matter may also be referred to the police if the attempted deception warrants their attention.

In line with pre-action protocols on pre-action conduct and seeking a resolution prior to legal action, I require disclosure of a copy of the proof of acknowledgement that you will be relying on in court.

I also note that you have failed to provide any proof that this debt exists and that I am liable for it, despite a reasonable request for you to do so.

This matter will also be reported to the OFT, Trading Standards and other bodies.

Failure to take reasonable steps to resolve the dispute at this stage by providing this proof will be brought to the attention of the court.

Therefore I wish to formally notify you that unless I received confirmation that this matter is now closed, then I will not hesitate to make a formal complaint to the 'Office of Fair Trading' and also to 'Trading Standards'.

Furthermore, any attempted contact (other than to confirm that this matter is now closed) by any:

• "trading style" of the <Name of debt collector> group
• constituent member of the <Name of debt collector> group
• a third party acting on your behalf
• a third party that claims to have been legally assigned this debt

will result in an immediate complaint to the aforementioned regulatory bodies.

Also please note that any legal action you may consider will be FULLY and VIGOROUSLY defended, and you will be put to a strict proof of the alleged debt and any payment or acknowledgement that you claim within the relevant limitation period.

In line with the protocols on pre-action conduct, I therefore request a independently verifiable copy of any

- Proof of my liability for the alleged debt.
- Proof of acknowledgement or payment that you may claim was made within the limitation period.

Failure to comply with this reasonable request will result in your actions being brought to the attention of the court, the OFT and Trading Standards.

Furthermore, you may consider this letter a FORMAL COMPLAINT under the complaint procedures set out by the Financial Ombudsman. If you wish to correspond with myself with any other purpose than to confirm that this matter is now closed, then I require you to supply me with a written copy of your complaints procedure and a "final response" that I may forward to the Financial Ombudsman with my complaint.

This COMPLAINT is not going to go away and ignoring this problem could potentially make your situation worse. I therefore strongly recommend that you send written confirmation that no further contact will be made concerning the above account and confirmation that this matter is now closed.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

fermi

Or perhaps at least something along those lines.

You get the idea anyway....

DVardysShadow

fermi wrote: »

Or perhaps at least something along those lines.

You get the idea anyway....

It is a bit unwieldy and could do with substantial trimming, methinks.

The key point on which the whole letter pivots is

You claim that acknowledgement was made in 200X.

I dispute this utterly, and demand that you provide proof of any acknowledgement by myself that you would seek to rely on in court.

and this really needs bringing right to the fore so that it does not get lost