Are everyone entitled to bank+public holidays?

ironlady2022

However, if his old contract says "seven weeks", then it is still seven weeks' leave - but it's seven weeks at FOUR days a week, 7.5 hours a day. Ie, 28 days. Which is correct (inc BHs). Previously it would have been seven weeks at FIVE days a week, but only 6 hours a day. So technically it's correct, if it says "seven weeks" and not a specific number of days.

I gree with this but as mine were stated in hours, I can only assume it's in hours for him.

Well, that's a policy decision to be made, then. Because if what you're saying is true (and if I've interpreted correctly) then people on part time hours potentially have a better or worse deal than full timers, and you are wide open to ET claims.

Think people have been taking more holidays than allowed but I think it's because it's been unclear from the beginning.

I'm not sure it *is* the case that people have more leave, though, as your leave seems to be correct from when you were part time...? Sounds like your contracts are potentially correct, but the interpretation of them in terms of part timers isn't.

Yes I have worked it out and my leave is correct but I didn't count Bank/Public holiday days that landed on Mondays as I never worked them so I thought I wasn't entitled to them. but it turns out that I am.

Sorry I'm not sure how to quote paragraphs.

Xbigman

A fascinating thread. I'd like your reaction to my position.

1. I was working 5*8 hours.

2. I then switched to 4*10. I was pro rata'd down from 25 days holiday to 20. My bank holidays stayed the same, so instead of 8 bank holidays being worth 1.6 weeks holiday they were now worth 2 weeks holiday. This was put to me by my employers as an advantage of the four day week. Fair enough.

3. I dropped 6 hours from my shift pattern so I work 4*8.5 hrs.
I'm then told I will lose 15% bank holiday entitlement. This I disputed. My argument was that the number of days worked had not changed only the hours. As a bank holiday was now only worth 8.5 hours pay (instead of 10) they had in effect reduced my holiday pay by 15% already. (IE. I get the same number of days off but I'm paid less). This was eventually accepted.

I'd be interested to know if my argument in 3 was right.

X

getmore4less

jobbingmusician wrote: »

Everyone is entitled to 8 bank/public holidays pro rata (9 next year because of Queenie stuff).!

Lets correct that statement.

No One is entitled to bank holidays.

Base statutory holiday entitlement is 5.6 weeks.

They(BH) may be built into your contractual holidays entitlement.

KiKi

mayling03 wrote: »

I gree with this but as mine were stated in hours, I can only assume it's in hours for him.

Well if it's stated in hours as total paid leave (and not just AL) then it's still accurate, regardless of which contract it's on. If it's just AL then it needs to be looked at, but as I said before - the 'contract' argument doesn't stack up anyway!


To quote paragraphs, put this at the beginning of the quote: [ quote ]
And this at the end: [ / quote ]

Minus all the spaces.
KiKi

KiKi

Xbigman wrote: »

2. I then switched to 4*10. I was pro rata'd down from 25 days holiday to 20. My bank holidays stayed the same, so instead of 8 bank holidays being worth 1.6 weeks holiday they were now worth 2 weeks holiday. This was put to me by my employers as an advantage of the four day week. Fair enough.

'Fair enough' because it gave you an advantage, though! Not fair enough to everyone else! If you were doing 1 day a week is that the same? Still 8 days BHs?

3. I dropped 6 hours from my shift pattern so I work 4*8.5 hrs.
I'm then told I will lose 15% bank holiday entitlement. This I disputed. My argument was that the number of days worked had not changed only the hours. As a bank holiday was now only worth 8.5 hours pay (instead of 10) they had in effect reduced my holiday pay by 15% already. (IE. I get the same number of days off but I'm paid less). This was eventually accepted.

I'd be interested to know if my argument in 3 was right.

Yes, your argument in '3' was right.

By reducing your working hours, your WHOLE entitlement to paid holiday (AL and BH) is reduced in terms of hours - but not days, as you are working the same number of days.

However, you shouldn't have the full 'BH' amount in your total paid leave, that's still wrong, unless your company run a policy of allowing part timers to claim more BHs than full timers, which isn't advisable...
FTE = 33 days total paid leave
You = 26.4 days total paid leave

You're currently getting 28. Your employers don't sound particularly savvy enough to understand this, though!

KiKi

ironlady2022

I understand it much better now. Annual Leave and Bank/Public Hols should BOTH be pro rota-ed. Other than FTE, annual leave should be translated into hours. The simple equation would be:

(Weeks off in a year including bank/public hols) x (No of days worked in a week) = Annual Leave in days

Take this figure and multiply by number of hours worked in a day = Leave hours

Any bank hols that fall on your working day gets taken off and any that don't, won't effect your entitlement.

SIMPLES!

lr1277

mayling03 wrote: »

And if all of a sudden this gets brought to the attention of my Manager, I'll be the most hated person in the office. The other side to it would be it will just continue as it is as my Manager is very 'lax' let's just say.

Sorry if I am stating the obvious, but now you have a managerial/leadership position, you are not there to be liked by your staff.

You are there to provide a good working environment so that your staff can get on with their jobs. If that means being fair and some people perceive they lose out, then so be it.

Would you rather be seen as friendly but useless or fair and a good boss?

ironlady2022

lr1277 wrote: »

Sorry if I am stating the obvious, but now you have a managerial/leadership position, you are not there to be liked by your staff.

You are there to provide a good working environment so that your staff can get on with their jobs. If that means being fair and some people perceive they lose out, then so be it.

Would you rather be seen as friendly but useless or fair and a good boss?

I am in no way the Manager or the Leader as such. I will just bring it to the attention of my boss and write a proposal to him. As mentioned before this has been dumped onto me as my colleague left today. Furthermore I understand it fully now and I see it as a fair system whereas before I could not get my figures correct.

KiKi

mayling03 wrote: »

I understand it much better now. Annual Leave and Bank/Public Hols should BOTH be pro rota-ed. Other than FTE, annual leave should be translated into hours. The simple equation would be:

(Weeks off in a year including bank/public hols) x (No of days worked in a week) = Annual Leave in days

Take this figure and multiply by number of hours worked in a day = Leave hours

Any bank hols that fall on your working day gets taken off and any that don't, won't effect your entitlement.

Yes! Or, if someone works the same hours each day:

((FTE AL + 8) / 5) x number of days worked = total paid leave for the year.

Wouldn't it be easier if everyone worked full time, Mon-Fri, and businesses always shut on BHs?!

SIMPLES!

Are you channelling SarEl?

KiKi

getmore4less

KiKi wrote: »

Wouldn't it be easier if everyone worked full time, Mon-Fri, and businesses always shut on BHs?!

Thin end of the wedge.

Things like holiday acrual when working, when sick, when on maternty, when leaving are not consistant

There are so many anomalies in the framework for holidays it is easy to fall foul of something for any non standard work pattern.

Holiday legislation has fallen foul of the keep add rules so gets more complicated rather than break it down to a simple algorithm that just works.