Number of first-time buyers plummets to lowest on record

RenovationMan

DervProf wrote: »

Eh ?

Please explain the "backtracking". This reminds me of chucky, a year or two ago. Backtracking this, backtracking that. :eek:

Oh dear, you go on and on about how I (about 8 months ago) mentioned I thought you could have been geneer and here you are throwing the mud yourself. All that hand wringing and self-righteous indignation and yet here you are. Hypocrite much?

DervProf

RenovationMan wrote: »

Oh dear, you go on and on about how I (about 8 months ago) mentioned I thought you could have been geneer and here you are throwing the mud yourself. All that hand wringing and self-righteous indignation and yet here you are. Hypocrite much?

OK, let's bring things bang up to date.

How about the idea that I put forward that the way to get a decent mortgage deal is to save a decent deposit ? I also suggested a repayment mortgage to enable a good deal for a future remortgage. You seem to think that this idea is a bad one, and that I said, or implied, that it was easy. Please try to explain your reasoning.

I think you are saying that HPI is "free money" by helping mortgage payers get a good deal. That's all well and good, but it doesn't help potential FTBs, does it ? It makes their deposits (which I am suggesting that they try to save up for) more difficult or impossible to achieve.

RenovationMan

DervProf wrote: »

OK, let's bring things bang up to date.

How about the idea that I put forward that the way to get a decent mortgage deal is to save a decent deposit ? I also suggested a repayment mortgage to enable a good deal for a future remortgage. You seem to think that this idea is a bad one, and that I said, or implied, that it was easy. Please try to explain your reasoning.

I think you are saying that HPI is "free money" by helping mortgage payers get a good deal. That's all well and good, but it doesn't help potential FTBs, does it ? It makes their deposits (which I am suggesting that they try to save up for) more difficult or impossible to achieve.

Nope. A good attempt at deflection, but I'm going to pull you back. I said that the only people who own properties and still want a housing market crash are people like yourself who bought before the boom (and have therefore not only secured a cheaper property but who have also seen 300% HPI) and so cheerlead a market correction because you already have a large amount of equity and so are untouchable by a correction.

Contrast this with someone who has just bought. Not many of them will be cheering on a property crash with the same enthusiasm as you because they will be impacted by the crash, hitting their hard earned deposit and perhaps lowering their equity to the point where it impacts their mortgage LTV or worse still, leaves them in negative equity.

The main thrust was that it's fine for people like yourself to cheer on a housing crash because you personally won't be affected by it. How noble of you.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

DervProf wrote: »

it doesn't help potential FTBs, does it ? It makes their deposits (which I am suggesting that they try to save up for) more difficult or impossible to achieve.

But in a world of sensible, historically normal, and prudent mortgage lending, where a 5% deposit, a full time job, and an average credit report was enough to get a mortgage, it doesn't make much difference.

After all 5% of 100K is 5K.... And 5% of 150K is 7.5K.

So an average buyer would only have to save another 4-6 weeks salary to compensate for many years of HPI.

brit1234

Deposits are high because the banks know how overvalued property is. The high deposits are there to protect against big house price falls.

DervProf

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

But in a world of sensible, historically normal, and prudent mortgage lending, where a 5% deposit, a full time job, and an average credit report was enough to get a mortgage, it doesn't make much difference.

After all 5% of 100K is 5K.... And 5% of 150K is 7.5K.

So an average buyer would only have to save another 4-6 weeks salary to compensate for many years of HPI.

5% of 100K is 5K (nice, easy deposit, and a nice, easy 95K mortgage).

10% of 100K is 10K (not so nice deposit, but still an easy mortgage).

Let's have 5% LTVs then !

OK, so away goes the property market. Property is "affordable" once more. HPI returns to the menu.

5% of £150k (we've had a few years of HPI) is 7.5K (fairly nice deposit, mortgage is a bit more though).

With low deposit requirements, you will speed up HPI and eventually end up with large deposit requirements. Not only that, you end up with very large borrowing requirements.

RenovationMan

DervProf wrote: »

You keep mentioning that I bought my first house in 1995 (which isn't true, BTW). I bought my house when I'd saved enough of a deposit, and I bought a place that was within my means. If I couldn't have done that, I wouldn't have bought. It wasn't easy to save the money, and it may have been that I could have been "priced out" forever. Luckily, I didn't give up saving, and the opportunity did arise to buy a house. My advice is to save a deposit, as it happens. I take it that your advice would be different, as you seem to disagree with me on this principle ?

DervProf wrote: »

I have at least 20 years until retirement.

2 bedroom semi detached.

~ 1995

Child free and single.

Is that "impressive" enough ?

Oh dear, looks like someone is forgetting his 'back story'. Didn't buy a house in 1995? Could have been 'priced out', but manfully stuck at it. LOL what a joker. :rotfl:

I don't know I even bother trying to debate with people like yourself and geneer. Your back stories and circumstances change faster than the tyres on an F1 car. :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

RenovationMan

brit1234 wrote: »

Deposits are high because the banks know how overvalued property is. The high deposits are there to protect against big house price falls.

DervProf thinks that house prices are irrelevent, you guys should just knuckle down and save up a deposit. It was just as hard in his day when he bought in 1995. He was afraid of being priced out, but he didn't moan, he just got on with it.

Back to the real world, I don't think there are too many right minded people who would really think it's as easy to buy a house today as it was in 1995. It's tough out there and most people know it. Ignore DervProf, he's just a troll. :mad:

DervProf

RenovationMan wrote: »

Nope. A good attempt at deflection, but I'm going to pull you back. I said that the only people who own properties and still want a housing market crash are people like yourself who bought before the boom (and have therefore not only secured a cheaper property but who have also seen 300% HPI) and so cheerlead a market correction because you already have a large amount of equity and so are untouchable by a correction.

Contrast this with someone who has just bought. Not many of them will be cheering on a property crash with the same enthusiasm as you because they will be impacted by the crash, hitting their hard earned deposit and perhaps lowering their equity to the point where it impacts their mortgage LTV or worse still, leaves them in negative equity.

The main thrust was that it's fine for people like yourself to cheer on a housing crash because you personally won't be affected by it. How noble of you.

If I hadn't yet bought, I`d welcome a correction in prices.

If I'd just bought, a correction in prices wouldn't be too much bother to me, as long as I'd taken on a mortgage that I could afford.

I'm not, and haven't cheered on a crash. I certainly thought there was the possibility of one leading up to 2007.

"Contrast this with someone who has just bought.".

Given that the number of people buying recently has not been so high, that IRs have been low (as you keep reminding us), and that deposit requirements have been higher, the number of people relying on HPI should be fairly low, I would have thought. A slow fall in prices for a few years would not be very damaging, and would give a better chance for the next generation of FTBs.

So, unlike yourself, I have replied to your points.

Maybe you'd like to answer my earlier question - "How about the idea that I put forward that the way to get a decent mortgage deal is to save a decent deposit ? I also suggested a repayment mortgage to enable a good deal for a future remortgage. You seem to think that this idea is a bad one, and that I said, or implied, that it was easy. Please try to explain your reasoning."

DervProf

RenovationMan wrote: »

DervProf thinks that house prices are irrelevent, you guys should just knuckle down and save up a deposit. It was just as hard in his day when he bought in 1995. He was afraid of being priced out, but he didn't moan, he just got on with it.

Back to the real world, I don't think there are too many right minded people who would really think it's as easy to buy a house today as it was in 1995. It's tough out there and most people know it. Ignore DervProf, he's just a troll. :mad:

I already told you that I didn't buy in 1995, but you know better, I suppose.

I think you'll find that I do have sympathy for FTB's, that's why I would like to see house prices fall some more. In fact, those that bother to read my posts will see that I want FTBs to have the same opportunity that I did, and that is to be able to buy a property without taking on too much financial risk. That is very difficult these days, that's why I want to see lower house prices. It's understandable that those who want HPI will disagree with my views, after all, HPI is good for potential FTBs isn't it ?