AWR - What does it really mean ?.

planning303

There is nothing in the AWR that says perminent staff need to recieve the same as agency, just that agency cannot be paid less than perminent in a comparative role.. if an employer wants to pay 20k more to agency they are well within their rights to

jsnodin

Hi

I need a bit of clarity on something I can't find a definitive answer to through googling.

I work for *** as a temp working project coordinator.

My pay is £8.28 per hour minus a £1 per hour deduction for holiday pay. I accrue 28 days holiday in return for these holiday deductions. My take-home pay is thus £7.28 per hour. (Approx £14,000).

My comparator in this job role is paid approx £16,000 per year.

My recruitment agency has informed the temp workers here that we are not entitled to any rise in basic pay because we are currently paid the same as our comparators. (£8.28 an hour is equal to the salary of the permanent worker).

My question is whether this conforms with the new AWR. Surely if my pay necessarily includes a deduction in order to obtain the holiday that perm workers get as standard, without a deduction, then this constitutes an infringment of the law which states I am to receive the same pay and holiday. I may receive the same pay, but If this was to remain as £8.28 and thus be equal, I would have no holiday entitlement whatsoever. I am thus forced into having a lower wage in order to obtain the same holiday.

Does this conform to the new regulations?

Many thanks if anyone can answer this.

Josh

SarEl

Well given that, as we said above, the regulations are entirely untested in law...

I think that you are correct and the deduction for holiday shouldn't be made provided that you have been in the same post for 12 weeks continously; that there isn't a pay scale which accounts for a pay differential; that you are directly employed by the agency and have no other arrangements in place (such as umbrella or minited company status) that gets in the way; that you are not recruited through an in-house recruitment bank.....and that your comparator is actually a comparator in all respects. I think I have covered all the possible major exceptions which could get in the way.

That all said, the problem with rgeulations like this is that unless you can resolve this amicably I forsee a sudden drying up of the requirement for work, and absolutely nothing suitable coming along for - well, ever! This is the problem with the regulations - they may give agency workers rights (provided they meet all the relevant criteria) and there may be provisions to catch agencies attenpting to avoid them - but they are tootless without testing, and unfortunately I rather suspect that they will be toothless when tested. It's an empty victory getting an extra £1 per hour for work you no longer have, and rights are not always what they are cracked up to be. Sorry to not sound more positive about this, but I have little faith in the regulations. I look forward to being proven wrong, but am not expecting it any time soon.

patman99

I think deducting £1 p/hr for holiday pay is a damn cheek. I have heard of some of the less scrupulous agencies doing this, but luckily none of the ones I'm with do.

jamiem26

A slight tangent, but does anyone know the timescale that an agency/hirer has to adhere to AWR.

I have worked as a temp at a company continuously for the past year. I would thus have the qualified for AWR as of the last week of December (after querying it with my agency in November - they, unsuprisingly, didn't inform me of the changes - they confirmed that I qualified), and I have been back at work since January 3rd (this is the thus second week).

I have been told that the changes haven't been implemented as it stands and that they'll be getting back to me in due course. I have had telephone and email correspondence and i'm not getting anywhere.

I've read of a 28 day figure, but is that just for receiving information? I have requested the information by email; does that count as me submitting a written request for information?

They're taking the p*ss effectively, and i'm becoming incredibly impatient.

I'm just trying to plan what my next step should be should their approach continue; in my eyes, at best they're guilty of incredible incompetence, and at worst, deliberate obstruction.

LittleVoice

jamiem26 wrote: »

A slight tangent, but does anyone know the timescale that an agency/hirer has to adhere to AWR.

I have worked as a temp at a company continuously for the past year. I would thus have the qualified for AWR as of the last week of December (after querying it with my agency in November - they, unsuprisingly, didn't inform me of the changes - they confirmed that I qualified), and I have been back at work since January 3rd (this is the thus second week).

I have been told that the changes haven't been implemented as it stands and that they'll be getting back to me in due course. I have had telephone and email correspondence and i'm not getting anywhere.

I've read of a 28 day figure, but is that just for receiving information? I have requested the information by email; does that count as me submitting a written request for information?

They're taking the p*ss effectively, and i'm becoming incredibly impatient.

I'm just trying to plan what my next step should be should their approach continue; in my eyes, at best they're guilty of incredible incompetence, and at worst, deliberate obstruction.

Are you aware of someone in the host organisation who would be considered to be doing a comparable job to the one you do?

Have you done the same job for the past 12 weeks?

Is the host organisation a small company or one with defined salary bands?

Is the agency a large "high street" agency?

jamiem26

LittleVoice wrote: »

Are you aware of someone in the host organisation who would be considered to be doing a comparable job to the one you do? Yep, there are three Permanent staff who perform an identical role to me.

Have you done the same job for the past 12 weeks? Yep.

Is the host organisation a small company or one with defined salary bands? Small company; 15-20 staff.

Is the agency a large "high street" agency? Nope; I believe they have 3 branches Nationwide.

See bold .

Hopefully it'll get resolved by the end of the week, but i'm just looking into my position should that not happen. I'm due a pay increase of £3/4 an hour, for one thing.

I've been amazed at how lax they are seemingly being in adhering to the legislation.

They assure me that they are determined to adhere to AWR etc., but refuse to give me any informatiom. I will be chasing them up, again, tomorrow; it's the only way you get anywhere with these people.

LittleVoice

jamiem26 wrote: »

See bold .

Hopefully it'll get resolved by the end of the week, but i'm just looking into my position should that not happen. I'm due a pay increase of £3/4 an hour, for one thing.

I've been amazed at how lax they are seemingly being in adhering to the legislation.

They assure me that they are determined to adhere to AWR etc., but refuse to give me any informatiom. I will be chasing them up, again, tomorrow; it's the only way you get anywhere with these people.

So I assume the £3/4 an hour increase you believe is due is because you know the salaries of each of those three permanent members of staff and the the newest member of staff has been employed for the same or less amount of time as you. If not that then the host organisation does have published salary scales which would support the extra amount.

Do you also know how much holiday the directly employed members of staff receive in their first year of employment? If it is more than the statutory minimum you would almost certainly be entitled to an increase in respect of that because I doubt that your agency currently pays above the minimum.

Thanet62

SarEl wrote: »

And I recall saying some months ago (and several people telling me it was rubbish!) that all this would mean is that agency staff would never survive 12 weeks in any employment.

Actually what I am also seeing is an increase in the number of in-house staff banks, which have grown like topsy in the last three months. They aren't covered by the regulations.

Already happened in Royal Mail with the setting up of Angard to bypass the rules as this counts as an "in house" pool even though the whole of Angard are run by REED Employment. No extra's for me after 12 weeks just the same old Min wage and an extra 50pph for working nights! Very sneaky and very underhand. Welcome to work 2012!

planning303

Well, there were lots of anti-avoidance measures put into place as part of the regulations that i thought made things very tricky for you if it was deemed that you were going out of your way to flout the regs.. (obviously as Safi, points out regularly this is totally untested legislation)

I've done a huge amount of work regarding the AWR for my current employer, but 1 thing i've found interesting is that there doesn't actually appear to be a route of complaint for anyone that feels they have been served a misjustice by their employers regarding the AWR (if there is an i'm just blind to it, please feel free to link me up)